Kansas Crimson

JKLivin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 10:28 am

KUTradition wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 10:11 am we should be celebrating and honoring native peoples and their heritage, not continuing the centuries-long cultural (and literal) genocide that has been visited upon them

their story, and history, is every bit as important as yours (or mine). calling their history a fiction, to me, is denigrating and inhumane

“we” should do better. “we” should expect and demand better

a.) Nobody is suggesting that we not celebrate a culture or a heritage.
b.) Nobody is suggesting continued cultural or literal genocide.
c.) Nobody is calling their history a fiction.

Step back from the hyperbole machine for a minute, dude. You're overheating.

JKLivin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 10:48 am

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 10:28 am

KUTradition wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 10:11 am we should be celebrating and honoring native peoples and their heritage, not continuing the centuries-long cultural (and literal) genocide that has been visited upon them

their story, and history, is every bit as important as yours (or mine). calling their history a fiction, to me, is denigrating and inhumane

“we” should do better. “we” should expect and demand better

The problem here is that there are, on things like this, two (or more!) related conversations happening at the same time, and one of those conversations - which is as nuanced and challenging and sensitive of a conversation as we have in this country - tends to send everyone careening off into outer space.

On that particular conversation, I find it extremely disingenuous (heh) for the groups who have historically benefited from prior bad acts to declare themselves the sole arbiters of when it's time to "move on" and "focus on the future."

That, to me, feels like pulling up the ladder behind you. And I consider that to be inconsistent with our founding principles.

My response would be simple:
a.) I am not responsible for these atrocities.
b.) I refuse to pay reparations (monetary or otherwise) for these atrocities.
c.) I am tired of hearing about these atrocities.

My three older children all have a sufficient amount of Cherokee heritage that they received letters notifying them that they were eligible for medical and financial benefits from the government. To their credit, all three said "I would rather succeed or fail on my own. No one owes me anything. No, thank you."

KUTradition wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 4:45 pm

JKLivin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 10:27 am

KUTradition wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 9:50 am giggles

what conversation are you trying to have?

and with whom?

please be specific. you quoted me to interject a screed about “colonization”, which you then tried to morph into a discussion about reparations…which has very little to do with this thread or the discussions herein

you seem hell-bent on interjecting the white victimhood narrative, which is why i called it out

Like your buddy, you read a great deal into my posts that is unwarranted.

I objected to the use of the inflammatory term "colonization" because it is designed it elicit an emotional response. I'm not claiming victimhood. I'm not denying that these events happened. I'm suggesting that perhaps a measured discussion of a) what value there is in couching the events in emotionally-laden language and b) what is the end game of doing so. Sorry if that offends. Not my intent.

news flash…there’s a lot more than just two members of this community that have recognized and commented on the underlying themes of your posts

“colonialism” is what happened. what would you call it? the North American continent was colonized by Europeans at the expense of those who get here first

attempting to white-wash it by calling it anything else is disingenuous…there’s a thread for just such things

KUTradition wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 4:47 pm

JKLivin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 10:28 am

KUTradition wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 10:11 am we should be celebrating and honoring native peoples and their heritage, not continuing the centuries-long cultural (and literal) genocide that has been visited upon them

their story, and history, is every bit as important as yours (or mine). calling their history a fiction, to me, is denigrating and inhumane

“we” should do better. “we” should expect and demand better

a.) Nobody is suggesting that we not celebrate a culture or a heritage.
b.) Nobody is suggesting continued cultural or literal genocide.
c.) Nobody is calling their history a fiction.

Step back from the hyperbole machine for a minute, dude. You're overheating.

except that is exactly what is happening when a people are told their history is fiction

i’m not sure why this is so difficult for you

that you chose to make this about YOU both figuratively and literally, is not only telling, but it’s fucking arrogant and gross

seriously, do better

KUTradition wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 4:53 pm

JKLivin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 10:48 am

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 10:28 am

The problem here is that there are, on things like this, two (or more!) related conversations happening at the same time, and one of those conversations - which is as nuanced and challenging and sensitive of a conversation as we have in this country - tends to send everyone careening off into outer space.

On that particular conversation, I find it extremely disingenuous (heh) for the groups who have historically benefited from prior bad acts to declare themselves the sole arbiters of when it's time to "move on" and "focus on the future."

That, to me, feels like pulling up the ladder behind you. And I consider that to be inconsistent with our founding principles.

My response would be simple:
a.) I am not responsible for these atrocities.
b.) I refuse to pay reparations (monetary or otherwise) for these atrocities.
c.) I am tired of hearing about these atrocities.

My three older children all have a sufficient amount of Cherokee heritage that they received letters notifying them that they were eligible for medical and financial benefits from the government. To their credit, all three said "I would rather succeed or fail on my own. No one owes me anything. No, thank you."

1) nobody said you were responsible (instance 1 of making this about you)

2) nobody said anything about reparations (instance 2 of you making this about you)

3) (speaks for itself, and the third instance of making this about you)

do you think you personal, likely fabricated, anecdote gives you some sort of street cred? you should tell your “kids” that you’re sick of hearing about their heritage, and the difficulties their ancestors faced, largely through no fault of their own

if you truly empathize with the plights of native peoples, and agree that they and their histories should be celebrated, you could’ve just said as much

alas…

JKLivin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 5:32 pm

KUTradition wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 4:47 pm

JKLivin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 10:28 am

a.) Nobody is suggesting that we not celebrate a culture or a heritage.
b.) Nobody is suggesting continued cultural or literal genocide.
c.) Nobody is calling their history a fiction.

Step back from the hyperbole machine for a minute, dude. You're overheating.

except that is exactly what is happening when a people are told their history is fiction

i’m not sure why this is so difficult for you

that you chose to make this about YOU both figuratively and literally, is not only telling, but it’s fucking arrogant and gross

seriously, do better

Apparently you have reading comprehension issues. I explicitly said I was NOT saying that their history is fiction.

Your insistence on making everything combative and unpleasant is arrogant and gross. Perhaps you are the one who needs to do better.

KUTradition wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 5:59 pm

JKLivin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 5:32 pm

KUTradition wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 4:47 pm

except that is exactly what is happening when a people are told their history is fiction

i’m not sure why this is so difficult for you

that you chose to make this about YOU both figuratively and literally, is not only telling, but it’s fucking arrogant and gross

seriously, do better

Apparently you have reading comprehension issues. I explicitly said I was NOT saying that their history is fiction.

Your insistence on making everything combative and unpleasant is arrogant and gross. Perhaps you are the one who needs to do better.

that’s exactly what the article that YOU quoted was about

and i never accused you of any such thing

what the fuck is wrong with you?

JKLivin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 8:16 pm

KUTradition wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 5:59 pm

JKLivin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 5:32 pm

Apparently you have reading comprehension issues. I explicitly said I was NOT saying that their history is fiction.

Your insistence on making everything combative and unpleasant is arrogant and gross. Perhaps you are the one who needs to do better.

that’s exactly what the article that YOU quoted was about

and i never accused you of any such thing

what the fuck is wrong with you?

Go back and reread what you said to me. You absolutely accused me of that. Only one of us is going around looking for a fight, and it ain’t me.

JKLivin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 10:27 am

KUTradition wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 9:50 am giggles

what conversation are you trying to have?

and with whom?

please be specific. you quoted me to interject a screed about “colonization”, which you then tried to morph into a discussion about reparations…which has very little to do with this thread or the discussions herein

you seem hell-bent on interjecting the white victimhood narrative, which is why i called it out

Like your buddy, you read a great deal into my posts that is unwarranted.

I objected to the use of the inflammatory term "colonization" because it is designed it elicit an emotional response. I'm not claiming victimhood. I'm not denying that these events happened. I'm suggesting that perhaps a measured discussion of a) what value there is in couching the events in emotionally-laden language and b) what is the end game of doing so. Sorry if that offends. Not my intent.

JKLivin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 5:32 pm

KUTradition wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 4:47 pm

JKLivin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 10:28 am

a.) Nobody is suggesting that we not celebrate a culture or a heritage.
b.) Nobody is suggesting continued cultural or literal genocide.
c.) Nobody is calling their history a fiction.

Step back from the hyperbole machine for a minute, dude. You're overheating.

except that is exactly what is happening when a people are told their history is fiction

i’m not sure why this is so difficult for you

that you chose to make this about YOU both figuratively and literally, is not only telling, but it’s fucking arrogant and gross

seriously, do better

Apparently you have reading comprehension issues. I explicitly said I was NOT saying that their history is fiction.

Your insistence on making everything combative and unpleasant is arrogant and gross. Perhaps you are the one who needs to do better.

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 9:13 am

JKLivin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 10:27 am

KUTradition wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 9:50 am giggles

what conversation are you trying to have?

and with whom?

please be specific. you quoted me to interject a screed about “colonization”, which you then tried to morph into a discussion about reparations…which has very little to do with this thread or the discussions herein

you seem hell-bent on interjecting the white victimhood narrative, which is why i called it out

Like your buddy, you read a great deal into my posts that is unwarranted.

I objected to the use of the inflammatory term "colonization" because it is designed it elicit an emotional response. I'm not claiming victimhood. I'm not denying that these events happened. I'm suggesting that perhaps a measured discussion of a) what value there is in couching the events in emotionally-laden language and b) what is the end game of doing so. Sorry if that offends. Not my intent.

"Colonization" is only an inflammatory work to butt hurt ultra-sensitive MAGA white people who don't like to be reminded that white Europeans ran roughshod over the globe in their pursuit of wealth, slave labor and territory hundreds of years ago.

It's what happened. It isn't a knock on you that it happened but denying that it happened is.

JKLivin wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 9:33 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 9:13 am

JKLivin wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 10:27 am

Like your buddy, you read a great deal into my posts that is unwarranted.

I objected to the use of the inflammatory term "colonization" because it is designed it elicit an emotional response. I'm not claiming victimhood. I'm not denying that these events happened. I'm suggesting that perhaps a measured discussion of a) what value there is in couching the events in emotionally-laden language and b) what is the end game of doing so. Sorry if that offends. Not my intent.

"Colonization" is only an inflammatory work to butt hurt ultra-sensitive MAGA white people who don't like to be reminded that white Europeans ran roughshod over the globe in their pursuit of wealth, slave labor and territory hundreds of years ago.

It's what happened. It isn't a knock on you that it happened but denying that it happened is.

Denying that it happened and not wanting to talk about it all the time are two very different things. You're smart enough to know that.

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 9:42 am

JKLivin wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 9:33 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 9:13 am
"Colonization" is only an inflammatory work to butt hurt ultra-sensitive MAGA white people who don't like to be reminded that white Europeans ran roughshod over the globe in their pursuit of wealth, slave labor and territory hundreds of years ago.

It's what happened. It isn't a knock on you that it happened but denying that it happened is.

Denying that it happened and not wanting to talk about it all the time are two very different things. You're smart enough to know that.

Then just say you don't want to talk about it instead of shitting in the punch bowl by saying: "I objected to the use of the inflammatory term "colonization" because it is designed it elicit an emotional response."

You couldn't just say "I don't want to talk about this". You had to turn it to be an attack on Dems and how it is their fault that you don't want to talk about it instead of being an adult and owning your feelings even if they make you look a little fragile and overly sensitive. It's true MAGA in a nutshell. Just a bunch of people who don't want to admit that their opinions on some topics don't shine a very flattering light on them.

JKLivin wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 9:49 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 9:42 am

JKLivin wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 9:33 am

Denying that it happened and not wanting to talk about it all the time are two very different things. You're smart enough to know that.

Then just say you don't want to talk about it instead of shitting in the punch bowl by saying: "I objected to the use of the inflammatory term "colonization" because it is designed it elicit an emotional response."

You couldn't just say "I don't want to talk about this". You had to turn it to be an attack on Dems and how it is their fault that you don't want to talk about it instead of being an adult and owning your feelings even if they make you look a little fragile and overly sensitive. It's true MAGA in a nutshell. Just a bunch of people who don't want to admit that their opinions on some topics don't shine a very flattering light on them.

Sounds like a "you" issue to me. Good luck with that.

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 10:04 am

JKLivin wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 9:49 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 9:42 am
Then just say you don't want to talk about it instead of shitting in the punch bowl by saying: "I objected to the use of the inflammatory term "colonization" because it is designed it elicit an emotional response."

You couldn't just say "I don't want to talk about this". You had to turn it to be an attack on Dems and how it is their fault that you don't want to talk about it instead of being an adult and owning your feelings even if they make you look a little fragile and overly sensitive. It's true MAGA in a nutshell. Just a bunch of people who don't want to admit that their opinions on some topics don't shine a very flattering light on them.

Sounds like a "you" issue to me. Good luck with that.

I don't have any issue sharing my true issues or feelings with things other than that I probably do it too much. At least I am honest about them. I have no respect for liars, especially ones such as yourself who do it with the intent of denigrating others.

JKLivin wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 10:18 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 10:04 am

JKLivin wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 9:49 am

Sounds like a "you" issue to me. Good luck with that.

I don't have any issue sharing my true issues or feelings with things other than that I probably do it too much. At least I am honest about them. I have no respect for liars, especially ones such as yourself who do it with the intent of denigrating others.

Your issues cause you to read into my posts things that aren't there. I can't be responsible for your issues.