Kansas Crimson

ousdahl wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 4:22 pm It’s January.

Historically, this is the dog days of Self KU ball. Gonna be some ugly games the next few weeks.

It’s also the time of year a player may step up into a new role. Stay tuned.

Yep, conference play started up and Mitch looked more like the OG Mitch and not the one that was feasting on bad opponents--which is where he's at home. He'd thrive at a mid-major.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 4:22 pm It’s January.

Historically, this is the dog days of Self KU ball. Gonna be some ugly games the next few weeks.

It’s also the time of year a player may step up into a new role. Stay tuned.

After Christmas break was always a time we'd turn a corner some years. Especially young teams....but this is largely a veteran team. Och CB Dave DH JW and Mitch have played A LOT of basketball together over the years. That experience together matters a ton.

And your "new role" player might be Mitch LOL....i think JCL has established he's #8 in the rotation so maybe he can have a big 2nd semester for us.

I always felt like February was when Self teams would go thru a bad stretch, but might just be selective memory.

As far as "OG Mitch" are some of you really thinking he played poorly last night? 6pts 4rebs 3/5fg in 15min.

What are you expecting out of him on a night to night basis? Him to be Kevin Love?

I don't think George Mason is the only game KU will win this year because JCL. I have a feeling he'll have a double digit second half against someone to help win a close game.

That’s about what I expect out of Mitch, in a conference matchup against a meh OSU team.

Regarding front court minutes and depth, have we finally said farewell to Zach in the rotation this year? Prob lots of DNPs in his future.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 4:40 pm That’s about what I expect out of Mitch, in a conference matchup against a meh OSU team.

Regarding front court minutes and depth, have we finally said farewell to Zach in the rotation this year? Prob lots of DNPs in his future.

In close games no Zach or Kj without foul trouble or extreme boneheadedness from Dave/Mitch.

But we will beat enough teams by double digits for Zach and KJ to get spot minutes. 5-10 combined per game?


How much front court production are people wanting/expecting out of Mitch/Dave before they're satisfied? Mediocre production is about all we need. They aren't transforming into Embiid or Jokic anytime soon.

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 4:39 pm I don't think George Mason is the only game KU will win this year because JCL. I have a feeling he'll have a double digit second half against someone to help win a close game.

Agreed. And the great thing about him is that he only needs 10min or so to do it. And he seems to have the ability to come in cold and hit shots, which isn't always easy for some guys. Some guys need to work themselves into a rhythm. Sorta feels like Remy is one of those dudes and he's still learning how to find his spots without shooting 10+ times a game.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 4:33 pm As far as "OG Mitch" are some of you really thinking he played poorly last night? 6pts 4rebs 3/5fg in 15min.

What are you expecting out of him on a night to night basis? Him to be Kevin Love?

Team rebounding is where he stood out.

Not entirely on him...but if you're gonna play one big...

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 7:17 pm but if you're gonna play one big...

Then Self needs to recruit better bigs.

(Not related/responding to your post, just finishing the sentence).


Mitch has no business being an important piece at Kansas (and i say that as a mitch fan, in the nicest way possible). We've been missing on some key recruits in consecutive years to end up in this situation. We are actually really lucky he's improved as much as he has in his 9 years at KU because this is a year where we really need something from him and dave to not waste a really good rest of our roster. This is a great chance for Self to get #2.

If Wilson looked as if he had improved from last year so far this season, maybe you could think of considering him as our lone big behind Dave. He definitely has not shown that.

Mitch has played well. He will have trouble guarding legit bigs but hes also scoring in the post effectively. Hes a decent backup.

Dave's our ride or die in the post.

pdub wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 8:51 am If Wilson looked as if he had improved from last year so far this season, maybe you could think of considering him as our lone big behind Dave. He definitely has not shown that.

Mitch has played well. He will have trouble guarding legit bigs but hes also scoring in the post effectively. Hes a decent backup.

Dave's our ride or die in the post.

I think Dave is headed in the right direction.

And Mitch is better at the 5 than JW, even if JW is the better individual player. Just not at that position. Hell, at this point I am starting to wonder if Mitch isn't more capable at stretching the D and shooting 3s than JW is.

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 7:17 pm

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 4:33 pm As far as "OG Mitch" are some of you really thinking he played poorly last night? 6pts 4rebs 3/5fg in 15min.

What are you expecting out of him on a night to night basis? Him to be Kevin Love?

Team rebounding is where he stood out.

Not entirely on him...but if you're gonna play one big...

Yeah, the scary thing with Jalen is so far it looks like backup 5 is about the only place he can contribute. Mitch's interior D is not so much better than Jalen's that it outweighs how much better of a rebounder Jalen is. Right now Jalen's defensive rebounding rate is right on par with Thomas Robinson's in 2012. That's insane.

Jalen does not get a failing grade at the 5 this season. It's a NEI grade because Mitch, to his credit, has played well enough that we haven't had to get creative with the position. I just wonder how long it's going to last because Mitch looked way more like the Mitch we know against OSU.

In the end, I fully expect us to ride with Mitch, but I'd prefer Self to try other things out if things go south, because the 5 spot has to be the biggest worry night in, night out on what you're going to get.

Some of you are just seeing what you "want" to see it sure feels like. Mitch looked absolutely fine against OSU. Picking that single game out seems strange. 6pts 4rebs in 15min. He didn't play 30 fucking minutes and put up shitty numbers. He played his normal minutes and put up his normal numbers. He just started the game on the court instead of on the bench.

JW has been terrible relative to expectations. He can't shoot. He can't drive. And most his rebounds came at the 4 playing alongside Dave. Not at the 5 when he's having to rebound against even bigger guys.

Jalen is a fantastic rebounding wing. He's not a 5.

There is a much better argument to be made that JCL should be stealing JW minutes at the 4 than there is that JW should be stealing minutes at the 5 from Mitch KJ and Clemence.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:20 am

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 7:17 pm

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 4:33 pm As far as "OG Mitch" are some of you really thinking he played poorly last night? 6pts 4rebs 3/5fg in 15min.

What are you expecting out of him on a night to night basis? Him to be Kevin Love?

Team rebounding is where he stood out.

Not entirely on him...but if you're gonna play one big...

Yeah, the scary thing with Jalen is so far it looks like backup 5 is about the only place he can contribute. Mitch's interior D is not so much better than Jalen's that it outweighs how much better of a rebounder Jalen is. Right now Jalen's defensive rebounding rate is right on par with Thomas Robinson's in 2012. That's insane.

Jalen does not get a failing grade at the 5 this season. It's a NEI grade because Mitch, to his credit, has played well enough that we haven't had to get creative with the position. I just wonder how long it's going to last because Mitch looked way more like the Mitch we know against OSU.

In the end, I fully expect us to ride with Mitch, but I'd prefer Self to try other things out if things go south, because the 5 spot has to be the biggest worry night in, night out on what you're going to get.

It might be as simple as...is their big 6'8", slight, and perimeter oriented? OK, Mitch is gonna play 20 minutes. Is their big 7' and 240? OK Dave is gonna play the lion's share of minutes.

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:26 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:20 am

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 7:17 pm
Team rebounding is where he stood out.

Not entirely on him...but if you're gonna play one big...

Yeah, the scary thing with Jalen is so far it looks like backup 5 is about the only place he can contribute. Mitch's interior D is not so much better than Jalen's that it outweighs how much better of a rebounder Jalen is. Right now Jalen's defensive rebounding rate is right on par with Thomas Robinson's in 2012. That's insane.

Jalen does not get a failing grade at the 5 this season. It's a NEI grade because Mitch, to his credit, has played well enough that we haven't had to get creative with the position. I just wonder how long it's going to last because Mitch looked way more like the Mitch we know against OSU.

In the end, I fully expect us to ride with Mitch, but I'd prefer Self to try other things out if things go south, because the 5 spot has to be the biggest worry night in, night out on what you're going to get.

It might be as simple as...is their big 6'8", slight, and perimeter oriented? OK, Mitch is gonna play 20 minutes. Is their big 7' and 240? OK Dave is gonna play the lion's share of minutes.

Yeah, it all kind of goes back to needing "Conference Dave" to finish this season. If we get that, then the position is obviously fine no matter the other team.

I want as versatile a team as we can get because I also like the idea of playing Wilson or Adams at the 5 so we can switch at all 5 positions like we did against George Mason. That lineup was playing at a great pace, great spacing and scoring. We'll see a team or two that can play 5 perimeter oriented guys like GM.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:25 am Some of you are just seeing what you "want" to see. Mitch looked absolutely fine against OSU.

JW has been terrible relative to expectations. He can't shoot. He can't drive. And most his rebounds came at the 4 playing alongside Dave. Not at the 5 when he's having to rebound against even bigger guys.

Jalen is a fantastic rebounding wing. He's not a 5.

It's not about Mitch. It's about playing the best lineup to win.

Against OSU the team was better with Mitch on the bench. Against George Mason he was the reason we won.

My concern what do you do if Dave spazzes out against a team with traditional bigman...where Mitch is overmatched?

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:26 am It might be as simple as...is their big 6'8", slight, and perimeter oriented? OK, Mitch is gonna play 20 minutes. Is their big 7' and 240? OK Dave is gonna play the lion's share of minutes.

That's probably our plan....but Dave has only played 30min or more 5 times in his career. None this year. 27min is the most he's been able to stay on the court this season in a game.

I think if we can get 25min out of him nightly, then we can survive 15min of Mitch.

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:31 am

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:25 am Some of you are just seeing what you "want" to see. Mitch looked absolutely fine against OSU.

JW has been terrible relative to expectations. He can't shoot. He can't drive. And most his rebounds came at the 4 playing alongside Dave. Not at the 5 when he's having to rebound against even bigger guys.

Jalen is a fantastic rebounding wing. He's not a 5.

It's not about Mitch. It's about playing the best lineup to win.

Against OSU the team was better with Mitch on the bench. Against George Mason he was the reason we won.

My concern what do you do if Dave spazzes out against a team with traditional bigman...where Mitch is overmatched?

Well no shit we looked better with Dave in than Mitch against OSU. Dave had his best game in probably a year. LOL that's why Dave played 23min and Mitch played 15.

You don't think JW is more overmatched against a traditional big than Mitch in your scenario? You fix that on the recruiting trail. Not by playing a wing at the 5. Especially one who can't shoot. There is no case to be made that our team looks better with JW at the 5 than Mitch (or KJ or Clemence).

We all agree the best lineup to win is Dave at the 5 regardless of who starts the 1st half.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:36 am

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:31 am

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:25 am Some of you are just seeing what you "want" to see. Mitch looked absolutely fine against OSU.

JW has been terrible relative to expectations. He can't shoot. He can't drive. And most his rebounds came at the 4 playing alongside Dave. Not at the 5 when he's having to rebound against even bigger guys.

Jalen is a fantastic rebounding wing. He's not a 5.

It's not about Mitch. It's about playing the best lineup to win.

Against OSU the team was better with Mitch on the bench. Against George Mason he was the reason we won.

My concern what do you do if Dave spazzes out against a team with traditional bigman...where Mitch is overmatched?

Well no shit we looked better with Dave in than Mitch against OSU. Dave had his best game in probably a year. LOL that's why Dave played 23min and Mitch played 15.

You don't think JW is more overmatched against a traditional big than Mitch in your scenario? You fix that on the recruiting trail. Not by playing a wing at the 5. Especially one who can't shoot. There is no case to be made that our team looks better with JW at the 5 than Mitch (or KJ or Clemence).

We all agree the best lineup to win is Dave at the 5 regardless of who starts the 1st half.

When have I ever suggested playing Wilson at the 5 other than for specific matchups in specific situations?

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:32 am

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:26 am It might be as simple as...is their big 6'8", slight, and perimeter oriented? OK, Mitch is gonna play 20 minutes. Is their big 7' and 240? OK Dave is gonna play the lion's share of minutes.

That's probably our plan....but Dave has only played 30min or more 5 times in his career. None this year. 27min is the most he's been able to stay on the court this season in a game.

I think if we can get 25min out of him nightly, then we can survive 15min of Mitch.

You're missing my point entirely.

You play the guy who is the better matchup more and it changes from game to game.

Lion's share means largest part. So 20+ minutes. I didn't say anything about 30.