TDub wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2023 2:34 pm
I cannot believe the United States caused the Russians to blow up the hydroelectric dam. Can't wait to hear Q spin this one.
Devastating to the region, really really not good....and not an action you would take if you wanted to liberate the people or even take the land....purely a destroy and cause chaos move. Provided water, irrigation and power to the whole region.....oh, it also provided the water to cool the nearby nuclear reactor. terrific....
I read it as an act of desperation. I think Russia is fairly on the ropes, and a successful Ukraine counteroffensive might well be the state of the end of the war.
sure, id say its an act of desperation and an act simply to disrupt life/cause chaos/instill fear. It's the equivalent if a toddler destroying the play area and breaking toys after being told its time to go home.
its fucked though, because of the potential ramifications. A senseless act by a coward.
TDub wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2023 2:34 pm
I cannot believe the United States caused the Russians to blow up the hydroelectric dam. Can't wait to hear Q spin this one.
Devastating to the region, really really not good....and not an action you would take if you wanted to liberate the people or even take the land....purely a destroy and cause chaos move. Provided water, irrigation and power to the whole region.....oh, it also provided the water to cool the nearby nuclear reactor. terrific....
I read it as an act of desperation. I think Russia is fairly on the ropes, and a successful Ukraine counteroffensive might well be the state of the end of the war.
sure, id say its an act of desperation and an act simply to disrupt life/cause chaos/instill fear. It's the equivalent if a toddler destroying the play area and breaking toys after being told its time to go home.
its fucked though, because of the potential ramifications. A senseless act by a coward.
I agree, but I understand there is actually a possible strategic benefit (to Russia) of blowing up the dam. Something to do with it shrinking the length of the line Russia has to defend (in Ukraine's counteroffensive).
Re: Let’s have a war!
Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2023 4:48 pm
by KUTradition
i read some speculation that it wasn’t an explosion, but rather a failure of the dam because russia wasn’t allowing enough water through the gates. the reservoir has been at historic levels recently
also heard there are reports of a loud explosion in the early morning hours
who the fuck knows
i’d imagine, though, that this wouldn’t have happened had Ukraine still maintained control over the dam
Re: Let’s have a war!
Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2023 7:17 pm
by ousdahl
TDub wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2023 2:34 pm
I cannot believe the United States caused the Russians to blow up the hydroelectric dam. Can't wait to hear Q spin this one.
well if you can't wait...ask and ye shall receive.
To spin this one, they/them like to refer to another one of those notorious Kremlin mouthpieces:
The Washington Post.
Russia had to arm and feed its forces via three crossings: the Antonovsky Bridge, the Antonovsky railway bridge and the Nova Kakhovka dam, part of a hydroelectric facility with a road running on top of it.
The two bridges were targeted with U.S.-supplied M142 High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems — or HIMARS launchers, which have a range of 50 miles — and were quickly rendered impassable.
“There were moments when we turned off their supply lines completely, and they still managed to build crossings,” Kovalchuk said. “They managed to replenish ammunition. … It was very difficult.”
Kovalchuk considered flooding the river. The Ukrainians, he said, even conducted a test strike with a HIMARS launcher on one of the floodgates at the Nova Kakhovka dam, making three holes in the metal to see if the Dnieper’s water could be raised enough to stymie Russian crossings but not flood nearby villages.
The test was a success, Kovalchuk said, but the step remained a last resort. He held off.
...and, not that I think this is necessarily a smoking gun!
but, if it WAS the Ukrainians, I kinda wonder if TDub might revise this take:
Devastating to the region, really really not good....and not an action you would take if you wanted to liberate the people or even take the land....purely a destroy and cause chaos move. Provided water, irrigation and power to the whole region.....oh, it also provided the water to cool the nearby nuclear reactor. terrific....
Re: Let’s have a war!
Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2023 7:18 pm
by Sparko
Russia impounded the reservoir to record levels and have been warning Crimeans to save water in bathtubs. They destroyed it as the counter-offensive begins. In the event, the MFs have unleashed a weapon of mass destruction with the massive dam and nuclear reactor that relies on its water. Putin would be a dead man if I were in charge. Drowning a zoo. Attacking rescuers.
Jeebus.
TDub wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2023 2:34 pm
I cannot believe the United States caused the Russians to blow up the hydroelectric dam. Can't wait to hear Q spin this one.
well if you can't wait...ask and ye shall receive.
To spin this one, they/them like to refer to another one of those notorious Kremlin mouthpieces:
The Washington Post.
Russia had to arm and feed its forces via three crossings: the Antonovsky Bridge, the Antonovsky railway bridge and the Nova Kakhovka dam, part of a hydroelectric facility with a road running on top of it.
The two bridges were targeted with U.S.-supplied M142 High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems — or HIMARS launchers, which have a range of 50 miles — and were quickly rendered impassable.
“There were moments when we turned off their supply lines completely, and they still managed to build crossings,” Kovalchuk said. “They managed to replenish ammunition. … It was very difficult.”
Kovalchuk considered flooding the river. The Ukrainians, he said, even conducted a test strike with a HIMARS launcher on one of the floodgates at the Nova Kakhovka dam, making three holes in the metal to see if the Dnieper’s water could be raised enough to stymie Russian crossings but not flood nearby villages.
The test was a success, Kovalchuk said, but the step remained a last resort. He held off.
...and, not that I think this is necessarily a smoking gun!
but, if it WAS the Ukrainians, I kinda wonder if TDub might revise this take:
Devastating to the region, really really not good....and not an action you would take if you wanted to liberate the people or even take the land....purely a destroy and cause chaos move. Provided water, irrigation and power to the whole region.....oh, it also provided the water to cool the nearby nuclear reactor. terrific....
Im starting to understand why your hoops analysis is so poor....you don't know the difference between offense and defense.
also....a very important gem in your very own quote...."tested to see if they could stymie the Russians and not flood nearby villages....
followed by
"the step remained a last resort. He held off"
in no way shape or form is continuing to invade Ukraine a defensive movement, nor is it anywhere close to a last resort.
Stop attacking and go home......Stop apologizing for Putin, its pathetic.
Re: Let’s have a war!
Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2023 7:50 pm
by ousdahl
Fuck Putin.
I condemn him, and the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
TDub wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2023 2:34 pm
I cannot believe the United States caused the Russians to blow up the hydroelectric dam. Can't wait to hear Q spin this one.
Devastating to the region, really really not good....and not an action you would take if you wanted to liberate the people or even take the land....purely a destroy and cause chaos move. Provided water, irrigation and power to the whole region.....oh, it also provided the water to cool the nearby nuclear reactor. terrific....
I read it as an act of desperation. I think Russia is fairly on the ropes, and a successful Ukraine counteroffensive might well be the state of the end of the war.
is Russia on the ropes, tho?
don't get me wrong, I hope they are, and we really can end this war like ASAP.
I'm just curious what you may have seen or read or whatever to come to this thinking.
TDub wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2023 2:34 pm
I cannot believe the United States caused the Russians to blow up the hydroelectric dam. Can't wait to hear Q spin this one.
Devastating to the region, really really not good....and not an action you would take if you wanted to liberate the people or even take the land....purely a destroy and cause chaos move. Provided water, irrigation and power to the whole region.....oh, it also provided the water to cool the nearby nuclear reactor. terrific....
I read it as an act of desperation. I think Russia is fairly on the ropes, and a successful Ukraine counteroffensive might well be the state of the end of the war.
is Russia on the ropes, tho?
don't get me wrong, I hope they are, and we really can end this war like ASAP.
I'm just curious what you may have seen or read or whatever to come to this thinking.
is Russia on the ropes? this is Russian invasion...quit and go home and its over. If you punch a dog and the dog bites you.....do you get to kill its puppies and claim it as defense?
Re: Let’s have a war!
Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2023 8:45 pm
by ousdahl
jfish26 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2023 8:24 am
By no means would I say we've always avoided military adventurism (or even quasi-colonialism), but...Russia is actively taking other sovereign nation's land by conventional force. We're not doing, and have not for (at least) a very very very very very long time done, anything remotely similar.
this is another quality post. And, at the risk of asking a bunch of randyesque questions, these really might give me the closure I need to finally just shrug off this thread. I need to overcome my own cognitive dissonance here.
But - how do you reconcile those two things?
That is, how do you remain cognizant of our own long history of military adventurism and quasi-colonialism, yet also say with confidence we are not doing, and have not for some 5x very long time, done anything remotely similar?
For instance, does Afghanistan count? We were still there like less than 2 years ago.
heck, does Ukraine count? For years we've been flooding the place with more and more weapons, collabing strategic and training and intel with their armed forces, and now Halliburton (lulz) is in talks to buy up Ukraine's state-owned energy sector...how is that NOT military adventurism and quasi-colonialism in real time?
and, part of me is tempted to suggest something like - go do your own research on just how many different places the United States is, and has been, bombing like every single day for years.
But rather, I suggest you DON'T do that research. Doing so is a giant downer, and will only make you feel all pessimistic about the world, take they/them's word for it.
Re: Let’s have a war!
Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2023 9:14 pm
by TDub
call your therapist
Re: Let’s have a war!
Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2023 6:42 am
by Shirley
Re: Let’s have a war!
Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2023 10:23 am
by KUTradition
August 29, 1941
soviets destroy the Dnieprostroi dam in Dniepropetrovsk (Dnipro) as part of a “scorched earth” policy to hamper german/nazi advances
i’m sure putin is completely unaware of this event
Re: Let’s have a war!
Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2023 11:46 am
by Sparko
Russia, the world's leading armor force in terms of numbers of APVs and tanks is down to T-55s. 200,000+ dead. Russia is on a losing binge and acting out of pure spite now.
Re: Let’s have a war!
Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2023 11:51 am
by MICHHAWK
russia and china. i fantasize about the day those two countries are no longer.
Re: Let’s have a war!
Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2023 2:07 pm
by ousdahl
U.S. had intelligence of detailed Ukrainian plan to attack Nord Stream pipeline
The CIA learned last June, via a European spy agency, that a six-person team of Ukrainian special operations forces intended to sabotage the Russia-to-Germany natural gas project
russia filed a complaint with ICC (the rulings of which they themselves don’t abide by) claiming that Ukraine blew up the dam. they also claim that Ukraine deliberately raised the water level, despite the dam and its sluice gates being under russian control since the big inning of the occupation