Kansas Crimson

We're all isms now

TDub wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:46 am We're all isms now

That's racism

I'm going to share my last experience attending a non-Jewish religious service.
It's going to be long and I don't expect anyone to read all of it but if it offers just one person some insight - great!

Before I get started, I'm going to say I hem and haw when I talk about being raised Jewish and going to my temple - when in all actuality it's usually not so terrible. I admit going to temple is usually but not always a somewhat pleasant experience for me.
I am not someone who believes in a "traditional" God but I go to temple a couple of times a year out of respect to/for my mother - and I appease her by my attending with her.
As the AA staying goes, I take what I (you) need and I leave the rest. I leave a lot more than I take but I truly do try and take something/anything out of my experience.

Ok, so here I go writing about my last non-Jewish religious service that I attended.
I was staying at a hotel not far from the Lakewood Church in Houston when I was attending the Final Four in 2016.
On April 3rd I decided to attend the morning service. I am a curious guy and wanted to experience something I have never experienced before. I find Joel Osteen (and his wife Victoria) to be interesting if not fascinating. I went with an open mind and wanted to be an observer more than a participant.
I walked to the church and the first thing ("thing" not person) I noticed outside the church was this car.



What was I supposed to think? What I did think was - WTF does a "Go(d) Conference" need an "official" race car for? I admit I was confused and somewhat taken aback.

I walked in to the church and was greeted by a friendly woman and man. They took my "ticket".
Yes it was free (I believe it is quite costly to attend the later service - but don't hold me to that) but I still needed a "ticket" and I took the escalator up to the "mezzanine".
I was early so I decided to walk around the former home of the Houston Rockets.
Yep, it was an impressive building and obviously not like any other "Church" I have been in.
I was dressed what I felt was appropriately. A pair of "slacks" with a polo shirt. I noticed people dressed in their "Sunday best" (women in nice dresses, men in suits and ties) and I noticed people wearing shorts, t-shirts, and sandals. I don't think anyone was really looking at me per se but my guess is a few probably noticed me looking at them. I was trying to get a read on who a "typical" member of the church is/would be. That was all but impossible. I noticed seemingly wealthy and seemingly poor people. By listening to people speak I assumed you had highly educated people and poorly educated people. I noticed many African American people as well as Hispanic, Asian, and you name it, I probably saw it. I noticed people there by themselves and I noticed people there in large groups.
I forgot to mention the abundance of bus loads of people that pulled up to the church.
Looking back, one of the things I found most interesting is that other than when I first walked in, not a single person greeted me - not that anyone was required to but I was the one who had to initiate every conversation I had.

Since I had about 30-45 minutes to kill I decided to walk over to the "Lakewood Store". Hmmm. Bigger than I expected but I guess I really shouldn't have expected anything other than a "gift shop".
Granted this is 2020 and that was 2016, I am going to provide a link so you can see some of the things they sell in the "gift shop". https://www.lakewoodchurch.com/store
To me it was a cross between a University Book Store and a Disney Land Gift Shop.

I decided to head to my seat. I can't really recall if I had an actual assigned seat or not. I think I did but I'm not sure. I sat about midway in the "stadium" which at that moment, was less than 5% full and maybe not even 1% full.
A well dressed African American woman who was by herself sat a couple of rows in front of me. We looked at each other and exchanged smiles/head nods/good mornings. Soon after, a family of 4 or 5 wearing shorts and t-shirts sat a few rows behind me. They were in their own world so I didn't bother to exchange pleasantries. I watched the seats start filling up a bit and tried to pay attention to who was sitting where. Meaning, I wanted to see were the assumed "big wigs"/"high donors" sitting up front, where were the assumed "regulars" sitting, and where were the schmucks like me sitting. Interestingly I couldn't put any rhyme or reason as to who was sitting where.

About 10 minutes before the "service" started I noticed the "stadium" was only about 10-15% full. Where was everybody? I asked the African American woman if she was a member of the church and she said she was. I asked her where everyone was and she told me that usually the church is only about halfway full for the morning service.
Bummer! I wanted to and expected to see a full church. Oh well.
I wouldn't say the church was half full when the service started. More like about 25%. Which is still probably 4,000-5,000 people.

I had no idea what to expect from the service other than what I have seen on TV.
Well...... This really wasn't like any other Joel Osteen service I have seen on TV. It was seemingly 90% music. Granted, I found the music to actually be mostly enjoyable but I wanted more Joel and Victoria and less music.
As much as I was trying to pay attention to the service, I was paying attention to the "congregants" and "visitors". One word. WOW!
What a mix!
The African American woman in front of me was in utopia. Joy, tears, singing loudly, completely immersed in the moment/s. Amens coming out of her mouth seemingly as frequently as heartbeats.
The people down the row from me - bored. Talking to one another the entire time. Basically having social hour. Completely disinterested.
Again, no rhyme or reason to anything in terms of demographics and how people were reacting/responding to the service.

After about an hour I decided I had enough. I got up to walk out and incredibly as soon as I started to walk out, that was when the "plate" came out. Actually it was a large basket and it seemed there were at least 50 different people walking around the "stadium" with the baskets.
I dropped some cash (I don't recall - $10? $20) in the basket and walked out.

Soooooo.
My initial take and assessment summary was this.
Before I stepped foot in there I felt I would walk away being cynical when I walked out.
I couldn't help but think that after Church Joel Osteen was going to drive back in his Ferrari, or Bugatti, or Rolls, or whatever he was driving that day to his mega mansion with a shit eating grin on his face.


While I can't say I wasn't slightly cynical, I can and do say God bless those such as the woman who was sitting in front of me. Her being there was a magical experience for her and she was feeling the power of the message. God/Jesus/the lord and being in the church was working well for her. It truly was moving to witness.
So, if Joel Osteen and his wife can provide that for people - I ask myself, why is that a bad thing?
It's not. At least to me it's not.

In closing, while I am too quick to share my feelings on religion and why I believe religion makes people gullible and that to me religion is often/usually "cultish" in which people become brainwashed to the point of foolishness - I'll say and continue to say - if religion works in a positive way in someone's life and they don't harm themself or anyone else because of it - fantastic!

All the God fearing and evangelical pandering GOP legislators have overturned the Governors executive order limiting gatherings to 10 people. Gotta let Easter services proceed.
Already have 3 outbreaks in Kansas linked to religious gatherings, what's a few more? Be sure to let Jesus's blood protect you.

Joke of a state.

Geezer wrote: ↑Wed Apr 08, 2020 5:02 pm All the God fearing and evangelical pandering GOP legislators have overturned the Governors executive order limiting gatherings to 10 people. Gotta let Easter services proceed.
Already have 3 outbreaks in Kansas linked to religious gatherings, what's a few more? Be sure to let Jesus's blood protect you.

Christianity does not have a monopoly on self-destructive behavior. It's pretty much common knowledge that India was mostly a "quiet" place relative to COVID-19 until they had an Islamic conference in Delhi, which they refused to cancel, and as one would expect people as far of away as Thailand came over and then spread the virus to every corner of the country and SEAsia.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN21K3KF

Geezer wrote: ↑Wed Apr 08, 2020 5:02 pm All the God fearing and evangelical pandering GOP legislators have overturned the Governors executive order limiting gatherings to 10 people. Gotta let Easter services proceed.
Already have 3 outbreaks in Kansas linked to religious gatherings, what's a few more? Be sure to let Jesus's blood protect you.

My church will only be meeting virtually, despite pressure to gather in person. And none of the other churches in my town are gathering either. The vast majority of us still have a brain in our heads, contrary to popular belief.

HouseDivided wrote: ↑Wed Apr 08, 2020 8:31 pm

Geezer wrote: ↑Wed Apr 08, 2020 5:02 pm All the God fearing and evangelical pandering GOP legislators have overturned the Governors executive order limiting gatherings to 10 people. Gotta let Easter services proceed.
Already have 3 outbreaks in Kansas linked to religious gatherings, what's a few more? Be sure to let Jesus's blood protect you.

My church will only be meeting virtually, despite pressure to gather in person. And none of the other churches in my town are gathering either. The vast majority of us still have a brain in our heads, contrary to popular belief.

You mean those "I can't get sick....I have been washed in the blood of Jesus" types?

HouseDivided wrote: ↑Wed Apr 08, 2020 8:31 pm

Geezer wrote: ↑Wed Apr 08, 2020 5:02 pm All the God fearing and evangelical pandering GOP legislators have overturned the Governors executive order limiting gatherings to 10 people. Gotta let Easter services proceed.
Already have 3 outbreaks in Kansas linked to religious gatherings, what's a few more? Be sure to let Jesus's blood protect you.

My church will only be meeting virtually, despite pressure to gather in person. And none of the other churches in my town are gathering either. The vast majority of us still have a brain in our heads, contrary to popular belief.

At least 70 people confirmed to have congregated at the Bethany Slavic Missionary Church in Sacramento have been diagnosed with COVID-19. Who knows how many other people they infected.

It just takes a few stubborn idiots to ruin the efforts of the vast majority of folks that still have a brain in our heads.

I have a co-worker who is very religious. This morning he posted on Facebook - If God woke you up this morning say Amen.
While I can't prove that it wasn't God who woke me up this morning, I'm pretty sure it was my cell phone "ringing". I could overanalyze things and say maybe it was God who told the person to call me. Can I prove it wasn't?
Hard for me to prove that God doesn't play a role in everything that happens to me and everything I do.
That being said, I have a strong suspicion if God truly does love people who love him/her/it, God wouldn't want people spreading the virus to other God loving people on Easter - of all holidays.
Unless if course "it's God's plan". Which I have to assume is/would be the defense of some/many/most people.

Don't know how accurate this is. My guess is it's not accurate today but it was not too long ago.
I'll let others do the research if they care to.

Just saw Sec Lee Norman, Health Secretary (I think). He was livid about what the Legislature is doing to the Governor’s order about gathering in public. I hope all of you who voted for this legislature will remember this next election and all these clowns who put politics above lives the door

Grandma wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 8:57 pm Don't know how accurate this is. My guess is it's not accurate today but it was not too long ago.
I'll let others do the research if they care to.

I agree that it is disgraceful.

I do know that Rick Warren wrote one of the best-selling books of the last 30 years, and does not take a salary from his church because he lives off the book royalties. One of the things I always admired about Billy Graham was that he capped his salary at $85,000 in the 80’s and stipulated that it should remain there, regardless of how much his ministry made.

zsn wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:05 pm Just saw Sec Lee Norman, Health Secretary (I think). He was livid about what the Legislature is doing to the Governor’s order about gathering in public. I hope all of you who voted for this legislature will remember this next election and all these clowns who put politics above lives the door

It is ridiculous. I am hopeful that most Kansans will be smart enough to stay home on Sunday.

Gov Andy Beshear has been giving daily updates. They mostly go way too long for me to watch all of them. I did watch one today. Someone from the media asked him about churches that were staying open and holding services. Seemingly trying to get him into a soundbite where he would say something bad about open congregations. Rather than take the bait, he praised the many church leaders who closed their doors and cancelled services or did them online. I like this guy, he's smart and I actually think he cares. Hopefully, there is light in the political world.

Grandma wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 8:57 pm Don't know how accurate this is. My guess is it's not accurate today but it was not too long ago.
I'll let others do the research if they care to.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Fri Apr 10, 2020 12:19 am

That’s a very Swedish-looking Jesus.

oh come on bro, everyone knows Jesus had blond hair and blue eyes. It's not like he was a middle eastern Jew or something.