Kansas Crimson

Lonestarjayhawk wrote: ↑Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:12 pm Maybe it is time to move Vick to the Sixth Man...tell him his job is to come and heat up the scoring. Give his spot to David Mac and move Detric back to #4.

Dotson
Grimes
Garrett
Detric
David Mac

Vick - Sixth Man

That sounds like a horrible idea.

#1. DMac is lost on defense.
#2. Self has said numerous times Dedric has trouble playing next to another big who can't stretch the defense.
#3. Vick is our 2nd best offensive player and our best outside shooter.
#4. Vick averages the most minutes per game on our entire team at almost 35min per game.


I have no idea why benching one of our starters would be some magic fix for our issues. We basically have 6 playable players, Jay Bilas mentioned it yesterday. They're all going to play a lot. And DMac will get a handful of minutes (literally like 5-7min per game) when Dedric rests.

I don’t think some of the ideas about Vick (sixth man! change shoes at halftime! fire him into the goddamn sun!) are especially serious. It’s obvious at this point that our best game is with him, not without him.

But - all those ideas are certainly a (justified) reaction to the way he can just sink us like a stone when he’s not engaged. I honestly don’t know what Bill is supposed to do (besides learn whatever lessons there are to be learned and not touch a guy like him again).

Bill must have been pretty nervous heading into the year because I don't think he truly wanted Vick to return. You can tell he doesn't like his BS. At some point you've just got to accept who a person is.

Take super cool beas for instance. Tons of talent, has made decent money, and still does things like forget to put on game shorts and not notice until he checks in. Some people just lack focus and desire and it can't be taught.

(Fwiw Wiggins also forgot to put his jersey on a few weeks ago)

I am not saying that Vick isn't a valuable part of the team. I am questioning how he is best used. There are games that he disappears. 35 minutes per game may be too much for Vick. He is a scorer who isn't scoring. Focus him.

I don't buy that Lawson can't play with another Big. He did okay with Dok. He hasn't played many minutes with David. He has played ZERO official minutes with SDS. Take David's name out and replace with Agbaji.

So in the last week we have said vick should be benched and Grimes should be benched.

LOL anyone else? We're running out of guys to bench! Soon we'd have Charlie Moore out there bricking floaters and 3s for 15min per game.

Vick isn't best used at 35min per game. He's not best used as a #2 option either. But that's what he's forced to be this year. There is nothing we can do about it. It's almost February. Our team is our team. There is no quick fix.

A scorer who isn't scoring?

Vick is averaging 15pts per game on the year. He's averaging 14pts per game in conference. Over the last 6 games he's averaging 15pts.

He's not going to score 25pts every night. We've had very few guys capable of averaging per game totals like that and he's not 1 of them.

Play smart and defend. That's how we can win games and be most successful.

Kentucky shutting down Vick?

I saw a whole lot of Vick standing around the 3 point line.

jeepinjayhawk wrote: ↑Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:48 pm Kentucky shutting down Vick?

I saw a whole lot of Vick standing around the 3 point line.

yes, vick shut himself down

What I don’t get is, why doesn’t Self run plays for a player like Vick?

Let/make him run around screens to open spots and shit.

We finally did at the end of the game, and it worked, but too little too late.

Self hasn’t had a great year coaching. Let’s just be honest with that.

sdoyel wrote: ↑Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:51 pm Self hasn’t had a great year coaching. Let’s just be honest with that.

A coach is only as good as his players make him look. Virtually every time we have a knuckleheaded leader of the team, everyone thinks Self is calling dumb plays or not doing stuff right or not giving the right guys minutes. Virtually every time we have a savvy, intelligent leader, everything thinks Self is some kind of freaking genius.

It's not a coincidence.

I get it illy...you liked Vick's performance in the Kentucky game. I didn't. Yes, Vick has had great 30 point games. That is why I was disappointed in him Saturday. He can do more. I was expecting more. I don't believe you keep doing the same thing and expect different results. Shaking Vick up seems to have worked in the past. I like this team. But if they don't change something, I don't think the result is going to be as good as we all want.

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:04 pm

jeepinjayhawk wrote: ↑Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:48 pm Kentucky shutting down Vick?

I saw a whole lot of Vick standing around the 3 point line.

yes, vick shut himself down

In some games he does that.
Bilas was making a big deal about how Vick needs to hunt shots but this is how Vick is used in the offense. He wasn’t getting the ball and when he did they were extremely quick to press.
So in this case Kentucky had a good part to do with it.

And you can bench him if you think it might light a fire...but I don’t think he’s played so poorly that he’s warranted benching.
He’s not Vonte or Mason but it seems like you want him to be.
Most of you didn’t even want him back.

Am I the only one who when I see that there is a post about Vick is worried it's going to be something negative about him?
I give him props for wanting to come back to KU, staying out of trouble, and giving us some monster games.
Sure he's a knuckle head with Wiggins disease at times but we are much better off having him on the team than not having him on the team.
I say all that despite my feeling he shouldn't be on the team - but obviously it's not up to me to decide.
That's all. Have a lovely day kids.

I am not saying take his minutes to ZERO. I am talking about giving Vick a sixth-man role that is designed to put him back into a scorer's role. Run plays. Change the pace. Score buckets. I think he gets lost with 35 minutes per-game.

Lonestarjayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:06 am Shaking Vick up seems to have worked in the past.

When?

He's played awful in the 2 games he was benched this year. Shooting a fiery 2 for 11 over that 2 game span. Not exactly lighting a fire.

You've dreamed this "coaching strategy" up in your mind. You don't bench the player averaging the most minutes per game for your team. Especially not when running a 6man rotation. And he's clearly better than anyone we'd put in over him. Which is exactly why he's playing 35mpg even though he's an idiot and Self doesn't like him.

A few games ago Grimes couldn't get off the bench and played like 16min....a game or 2 before that against WVU we couldn't put Agbaji in the game. There is nobody to bench Vick in favor of that makes us a better team. The pieces are the pieces. There's not a lot of changing we can do.

Not to mention, we aren't even having a bad year. Why are we freaking out because we lost a road game against a top 10 team? As bad as our roster is (by Kansas standards), we've still got an impressive resume, even with a bad loss to WVU.

I know you hate UK lonestar, but losing to them doesn't mean we need to scrap what's worked and try something new. It was an obvious spot where we could lose. That's why we were 6pt underdogs.

nobody but illy thought that’s what you were saying. nobody said to bench vick, or grimes, but rather to just mix things up with how and when their minutes are used.

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:57 am nobody but illy thought that’s what you were saying. nobody said to bench vick, or grimes, but rather to just mix things up with how and when their minutes are used.

No. Nobody thought he was saying take his minutes to zero... not even illy. But thanks for your help and for your insightful post.

I agree that in some instances benching a player can "light a fire". Those are typically situations where the player is mentally tough and a hard worker......we're 4 years into the Vick experience. He's shown to be the complete opposite of that. He's a head case. That's why he basically got kicked off the team.

You bench Vick and it goes wrong and then our season is ruined. We can't be good without vick. And even though lonestar says "he's a scorer who hasn't been scoring", the stats say otherwise (shown above also). He's averaging 15pts per game on the season....he's averaging 15pts per game over his last 6 games....that's hardly a scoring slump.

The number of guys we've had average over 15pts per game is short. And he'd be the worst player on that list by a decent margin.

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:18 am

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:04 pm

jeepinjayhawk wrote: ↑Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:48 pm Kentucky shutting down Vick?

I saw a whole lot of Vick standing around the 3 point line.

yes, vick shut himself down

In some games he does that.
Bilas was making a big deal about how Vick needs to hunt shots but this is how Vick is used in the offense. He wasn’t getting the ball and when he did they were extremely quick to press.
So in this case Kentucky had a good part to do with it.

agree with this guy's post.