Kansas Crimson

Mjl wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 11:14 am But those kinds of jobs have been getting eliminated for a long time without any apparent effect on the unemployment rate, so they're going somewhere.

Our grandparents would have had a hard time believing everyone would be able to type and use computers. I think that's today's version of people today not believing everyone will know how to code, or in some way contribute to "the machines". I wouldn't be surprised to see Python become as basic of a skill as using, say, Excel.

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 12:00 pm Also, when employment dropped during the Obama administration, Trump claimed that was just people no longer searching for jobs, not job creation....and during the Trump administration when jobs increased the liberals claimed it was only the shitty low paying variety.

So....neither of those jibes with shifting to better jobs.

Mjl wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 1:01 pm

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 12:00 pm Also, when employment dropped during the Obama administration, Trump claimed that was just people no longer searching for jobs, not job creation....and during the Trump administration when jobs increased the liberals claimed it was only the shitty low paying variety.

So....neither of those jibes with shifting to better jobs.

But the actual data does jibe with it. The last two years that data is available (2018 and 2019), median income rose more than inflation and rose more than average income: https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/central.html

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 10:14 am Just saw a Dominos pizza commercial advertising driverless delivery vehicles.

Find it interesting thst their sales pitch is, "buy our pizzas, we just eliminated jobs!"

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 4:05 pm

Mjl wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 1:01 pm

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 12:00 pm Also, when employment dropped during the Obama administration, Trump claimed that was just people no longer searching for jobs, not job creation....and during the Trump administration when jobs increased the liberals claimed it was only the shitty low paying variety.

So....neither of those jibes with shifting to better jobs.

But the actual data does jibe with it. The last two years that data is available (2018 and 2019), median income rose more than inflation and rose more than average income: https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/central.html

Thanks for posting that. It more or less is in agreement with what I observe, if not what I hear in the media and from Ousdahl. I do think, in the macro, that technological advances produces jobs, and often good ones. In our respective professions I think you and I are accutely aware of this. I think it's obvious too though, that in the micro, there are specific instances where that's not the case. I think this is one of those. Obviously, you create some jobs, the people who develop and build and maintain the self-driving vehicles, but you clearly eliminate more. Domino's wouldn't be doing it if it increased costs by having more people on the payroll earning higher salaries. Clearly the jobs you lose are not the greatest, but they're jobs nonetheless.

Lots of interesting ethical arguments about this kind of thing? Is having 10 entry level jobs replaced by 4 good ones a good thing...maybe, at what ratio does it become a bad thing, etc.

But, it still seems like a weird way to sell pizzas. If instead they'd said, "Now you can get the same great pizza, but save money not tipping the no longer employed delivery driver!" I think there'd be a lot of (justifiable) pushback. But in both cases, they're using their new technology to get people to buy pizzas.

zsn wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 9:34 pm One needs to look no further than the shift from horse drawn carriages to automobiles. Definitely the latter requires higher skill jobs than whip crackers and poop-picker-uppers. Same is going to continue, higher skills and better wages. Those who are replaced are going to belly ache, and vote for the demagogues, in this case the Republicans.