Kansas Crimson

pdub wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:15 am The players are being recruited and paid by wealthy individuals ( yes, the people in the collectives are wealthy ) to play at the schools.
It is different than any 'kid with a job', obviously, or there wouldn't be this kind of discussion about it.

You want professional basketball in college towns.
I want college basketball.

You want KC Phogushers.
I want KU Jayhawks.

If a group of players run out onto the floor at AFH dribbling a basketball wearing a Kansas jersey and play a game then we have KU Jayhawks.

Last year's team was the first formal NIL team and they seemed to be more aware of playing for the fans and for previous KU teams than any in recent memory. It didn't result in them not giving a shit about KU, the fans or what it means to wear that jersey at all. They didn't play selfish basketball at all. No one has bailed on the team for better NIL options.

twocoach wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:59 am

pdub wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:31 am "If the Salty Iguana wants to pay Jalen Wilson $10k to promote their Taco Tuesday specials"

This isn't what is happening.
Nigel Pack just got 800,000 dollars.
Nigel Pack.

And that changes nothing involving the sport.

It absolutely does.
It is not just a recruiting tool, it is THE recruiting tool.
The uniqueness of what college ( college - i.e. - going to class, being involved in the University ) sports was is rapidly fading.

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:05 am

pdub wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:31 am "If the Salty Iguana wants to pay Jalen Wilson $10k to promote their Taco Tuesday specials"

This isn't what is happening.
Nigel Pack just got 800,000 dollars.
Nigel Pack.

The amount is irrelevent to the point.

"This guy was caught going 3 mph over the speed limit."
"This guy was caught going 40 mph over the speed limit."

"Same difference."

twocoach wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:05 am If a group of players run out onto the floor at AFH dribbling a basketball wearing a Kansas jersey and play a game then we have KU Jayhawks.

Sure.
And Becks beer is still as good as it used to be.

pdub wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:20 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:59 am

pdub wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:31 am "If the Salty Iguana wants to pay Jalen Wilson $10k to promote their Taco Tuesday specials"

This isn't what is happening.
Nigel Pack just got 800,000 dollars.
Nigel Pack.

And that changes nothing involving the sport.

It absolutely does.
It is not just a recruiting tool, it is THE recruiting tool.
The uniqueness of what college ( college - i.e. - going to class, being involved in the University ) sports was is rapidly fading.

Are these kids not attending class or being involved in the University? Those things haven't changed at all.

pdub wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:21 am

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:05 am

pdub wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:31 am "If the Salty Iguana wants to pay Jalen Wilson $10k to promote their Taco Tuesday specials"

This isn't what is happening.
Nigel Pack just got 800,000 dollars.
Nigel Pack.

The amount is irrelevent to the point.

"This guy was caught going 3 mph over the speed limit."
"This guy was caught going 40 mph over the speed limit."

"Same difference."

What your doing is bitching that they raised the speed limit from 55 to 75 because it ruins your drive to work in a car that won't go 75+ comfortably.

I'm bitching about them raising the speed limit to 80 from 25 because people were going 40 in a zone that probably should have been 30.

twocoach wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:25 am Are these kids not attending class or being involved in the University? Those things haven't changed at all.

Wait for it.

pdub wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:31 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:25 am Are these kids not attending class or being involved in the University? Those things haven't changed at all.

Wait for it.

Has something changed in regards to kids going to class since NIL was instituted? Most every athlete is taking online classes any more these days. That has pulled them away from the traditional college experience of days past far more than NIL ever did. Where's your outrage over that?

twocoach wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:25 am Are these kids not attending class or being involved in the University? Those things haven't changed at all.

they will eventually take the going to school part of the equation out of the equation. how can they not. we are going to have kids flying all over the country, coast to coast. 2-3-4-5-6 game road trips. how can they be expected to study. in between road trips and home games they got commercials to cut. appearances to make. they got contracts.

they will eventually take the going to class part right out of the equation.

pdub wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:29 am I'm bitching about them raising the speed limit to 80 from 25 because people were going 40 in a zone that probably should have been 30.

Sorry, but not that much has changed. We already had lots of players transferring and we already had lots of guys demanding money to go places.

MICHHAWK wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:35 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:25 am Are these kids not attending class or being involved in the University? Those things haven't changed at all.

they will eventually take the going to school part of the equation out of the equation. how can they not. we are going to have kids flying all over the country, coast to coast. 2-3-4-5-6 game road trips. how can they be expected to study. in between road trips and home games they got commercials to cut. appearances to make. they got contracts.

they will eventually take the going to class part right out of the equation.

I'll change my opinion if and when we get to that point. As of now, I don't see that happening. The vast majority of student athletes are still reliant on their degree to provide for them after their college sports participation comes to an end.

It went from, "NIL is just gonna be local commercials, it won't be a recruiting tool, nothing will change," to, "this was HAPPENING all along, get over it".

So it'll likely be, "they're gonna still attend class," to, "they were NEVER taking class in the first place, get over it".

pdub wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:21 am

NDballer13 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:05 am

pdub wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:31 am "If the Salty Iguana wants to pay Jalen Wilson $10k to promote their Taco Tuesday specials"

This isn't what is happening.
Nigel Pack just got 800,000 dollars.
Nigel Pack.

The amount is irrelevent to the point.

"This guy was caught going 3 mph over the speed limit."
"This guy was caught going 40 mph over the speed limit."

"Same difference."

So, you're problem isn't with players getting paid. It's how much.

Cascadia was right. It would be easier if you just admitted you're jealous of the amount they make and stop trying to justify it as ruining college sports.

No.
That has nothing to do with it at all.

viewtopic.php?p=113823#p113823

viewtopic.php?p=113835#p113835


I enjoy pro sports.

twocoach wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:05 am

pdub wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:15 am The players are being recruited and paid by wealthy individuals ( yes, the people in the collectives are wealthy ) to play at the schools.
It is different than any 'kid with a job', obviously, or there wouldn't be this kind of discussion about it.

You want professional basketball in college towns.
I want college basketball.

You want KC Phogushers.
I want KU Jayhawks.

If a group of players run out onto the floor at AFH dribbling a basketball wearing a Kansas jersey and play a game then we have KU Jayhawks.

Last year's team was the first formal NIL team and they seemed to be more aware of playing for the fans and for previous KU teams than any in recent memory. It didn't result in them not giving a shit about KU, the fans or what it means to wear that jersey at all. They didn't play selfish basketball at all. No one has bailed on the team for better NIL options.

IIRC, didn't Self also say this was the first year in a long time, maybe his entire time at Kansas, that he didn't have to sit down with someone from the team and discuss roles and unhappy players? Doesn't seem like the NIL impacted the team goals too much.

in the sec's new media contract it will be stipulated "no more school for the athletes."

the big 10 will follow.

no more school for the athletes is the natural progression.

pdub wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:29 am I'm bitching about them raising the speed limit to 80 from 25 because people were going 40 in a zone that probably should have been 30.

One could argue that many programs, ours included, were doing more like 65 or 70. But that's neither here nor there.

I am perfectly ok with your stance that players shouldn't be paid to go to a school to play sports. True amatuerism.

But I don't think it's okay to say "well you can get some NIL money, but only X amount. $50k vs $1mil makes no difference to me.

Either enforce the rules where they can't accpept improper benefits or let them get paid whatever people think they are worth.

I don't think creating an artificial individual salary cap for unpaid labor is fair.

If some billionaire booster wants to spend $500k and all the player has to do is show up for the company annual seminar then it's pretty obvious it's a pay for play arrangement, but there is no good way or fair way to determine what an appearance fee is worth. So in my opinion if it's okay for them to get $5k to attend said seminar then it has to be okay for them to get $500k for said seminar.

But the negotiations prior to commitment are supposed to be against the rules and those need to be enforced in my opinion. There are paper trails for that stuff.

But what a player is "worth" is totally subjective.

pdub wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:38 am It went from, "NIL is just gonna be local commercials, it won't be a recruiting tool, nothing will change," to, "this was HAPPENING all along, get over it".

So it'll likely be, "they're gonna still attend class," to, "they were NEVER taking class in the first place, get over it".

Maybe, we'll see. But I don't think anyone in their right mind ever believed that this would be limited to local commercials or that it wouldn't be used in recruiting except for the most naive or some intentionally obtuse trolls who just repeat "but they said so in their press release".

So what would be an acceptable amount for an athlete to receive in order to be considered the same as other students and not have it be considered pro sports?