Kansas Crimson

Sparko wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 10:50 pm Ridiculous. Experts said Ukraine wouldn't last a week. Putin has lost 250,000 dead and most of his armor. 315 aircraft. Wagner is defeated. Ukraine breaking into the backfield now. Never forget: a lot of these military "experts" are republican. Yeah. This is what Putin wanted. Sure. Goalpost moving.
And the U.S. has pretty much dominated every fight over our lifetime. But nation building is a no win thing. This particular fight is for national survival for Ukraine. Ukraine beating them it is just punishment for Russia's many transgressions. Russia is a nation that has screwed around and finally found out.

Lobster wrote:..."Strategically, this war was lost by both sides before it started. It will end in stalemate, which I now think was Putin’s intent from the get-go," Myers said. "President Biden, NATO and (Ukrainian President Volodymyr) Zelenskyy have trapped themselves in a Catch-22 of their own making, unable to deliver on unrealistic expectations they created."

jfish26 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 28, 2023 2:14 pm Putin controls one of the fiveish (?) most powerful militaries in the world (lumping non-US NATO in as a single bloc).

He has used that military to, among other things, twice in the last tens years invade Ukraine for the purpose of taking Ukraine's land/resources, and replacing its government with a puppet under his control.

What am I missing here?

KUTradition wrote: ↑Fri Jul 28, 2023 2:25 pm listening to a station based off the work of the Dances with Wolves soundtrack composer (John Barry), and up pops a random piece from the Hunt for Red October, entitled “Putin’s Demise”

just thought it interesting

carry on

jhawks99 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 28, 2023 2:02 pm You mean like this?

KUTradition wrote: ↑Fri Jul 28, 2023 2:26 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 28, 2023 2:14 pm Putin controls one of the fiveish (?) most powerful militaries in the world (lumping non-US NATO in as a single bloc).

He has used that military to, among other things, twice in the last tens years invade Ukraine for the purpose of taking Ukraine's land/resources, and replacing its government with a puppet under his control.

What am I missing here?

155 pages of “but the West”

KUTradition wrote: ↑Fri Jul 28, 2023 2:25 pm listening to a station based off the work of the Dances with Wolves soundtrack composer (John Barry), and up pops a random piece from the Hunt for Red October, entitled “Putin’s Demise”

just thought it interesting

carry on

ousdahl wrote: ↑Fri Jul 28, 2023 1:57 pm Yes, agreed.

But the fact he has nukes but hasn’t dropped them yet, may or may not be evidence that his strategy is something besides simply bringing as much cretinous evil upon the world as possible.

I’m not exactly sure precisely what that strategy is, either.

That’s why I asked why we can be so sure, to the point of dismissing it as delusion and crock-of-shittery, that Putin’s strategy isn’t something along the lines of a stalemate.

And, feral, forgive my smartass tone.

But, I think both of these things can be true:

- Putin really is a big scary evil boogeyman
- our perception and understanding of Putin is overwhelmingly shaped by our being conditioned by decades of russophobic Cold War propaganda either way

Sparko wrote: ↑Fri Jul 28, 2023 6:30 pm Putin is the closest thing to Stalin since the original. Throws enemies out the window. Poisons them. Disappears them. And has terrorized Africa, Syria, Chechnya, Georgia snd Ukraine. Tortured and killed many civilians. Children. He is who we were warned about.

Ousie wrote: fake news

Feral wrote: ↑Fri Jul 28, 2023 7:01 pm

ousdahl wrote: ↑Fri Jul 28, 2023 1:57 pm Yes, agreed.

But the fact he has nukes but hasn’t dropped them yet, may or may not be evidence that his strategy is something besides simply bringing as much cretinous evil upon the world as possible.

I’m not exactly sure precisely what that strategy is, either.

That’s why I asked why we can be so sure, to the point of dismissing it as delusion and crock-of-shittery, that Putin’s strategy isn’t something along the lines of a stalemate.

And, feral, forgive my smartass tone.

But, I think both of these things can be true:

- Putin really is a big scary evil boogeyman
- our perception and understanding of Putin is overwhelmingly shaped by our being conditioned by decades of russophobic Cold War propaganda either way

IMO, it's naive to think that the ~ 40-mile long armored convoy of Russian ground forces including tanks that invaded Ukraine from Belarus in February of 2022, that advanced thru the northern suburbs of Kyiv to within 5.5 miles of the Ukrainian parliament, presidential office, and the city's center, was there to create "a stalemate". But if you want to make that argument, knock yourself out.

Sparko wrote: ↑Fri Jul 28, 2023 6:30 pm Putin is the closest thing to Stalin since the original. Throws enemies out the window. Poisons them. Disappears them. And has terrorized Africa, Syria, Chechnya, Georgia snd Ukraine. Tortured and killed many civilians. Children. He is who we were warned about.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Fri Jul 28, 2023 7:30 pm

Feral wrote: ↑Fri Jul 28, 2023 7:01 pm

ousdahl wrote: ↑Fri Jul 28, 2023 1:57 pm Yes, agreed.

But the fact he has nukes but hasn’t dropped them yet, may or may not be evidence that his strategy is something besides simply bringing as much cretinous evil upon the world as possible.

I’m not exactly sure precisely what that strategy is, either.

That’s why I asked why we can be so sure, to the point of dismissing it as delusion and crock-of-shittery, that Putin’s strategy isn’t something along the lines of a stalemate.

And, feral, forgive my smartass tone.

But, I think both of these things can be true:

- Putin really is a big scary evil boogeyman
- our perception and understanding of Putin is overwhelmingly shaped by our being conditioned by decades of russophobic Cold War propaganda either way

IMO, it's naive to think that the ~ 40-mile long armored convoy of Russian ground forces including tanks that invaded Ukraine from Belarus in February of 2022, that advanced thru the northern suburbs of Kyiv to within 5.5 miles of the Ukrainian parliament, presidential office, and the city's center, was there to create "a stalemate". But if you want to make that argument, knock yourself out.

Do you think Putin might back off if nato offers some shit about Ukraine not joining?