Kansas City thread

[shindig]

People are just stupid, honestly. You are NOT allowed to park/stop your car in front of the terminal and wait to pick somebody up, it's been this way since 9/11, it just wasn't enforced much. Every other city I've flown in and if I have someone picking me up, they park in the cell lot. You call them after getting your luggage and they come swing by and pick you up. That is how most airports works, why KC peeps can't figure it out is beyond me. And the cell lot at MCI is right across from the Marriot.

[Sparko]

But the old terminals allowed you to park a few feet away. It will take time to embrace the suck that the rest of us so enjoy at these box airports.

[ousdahl]

someone please bring me up to speed. What's the issue with the old KC airport, and why the need for a new one?

all lifted Sierra Denalis aside, I always thought the old KC airport was pretty convenient. you could get dropped off within a few steps of your gate, thus undermining your mom's insistence on getting to the airport 3 hours before your flight takes off.

Contrast that with the Denver airport, which has tens of thousands of travelers a day going through the same single security line (that can often be measured in literal miles). I've legit spent over an hour just standing in the security line there...pretty sure I live blogged it in the travel thread (and also got scolded for not having TSA pre-check or whatever.)

Then from there, you gotta get on a train and ride miles to one of three terminals. Then from there, you gotta walk potentially more miles to finally get to your actual gate. Between all the driving and walking and train rides, you might as well just take a flight to get to your flight.

And that's not to mention the parking is miles away, the cell phone lot is even further, and all the car pickups funnel into the same little bottlenecks that tend to be a traffic jam.

[shindig]

But the old terminals allowed you to park a few feet away. It will take time to embrace the suck that the rest of us so enjoy at these box airports.

You were never supposed to park in the drop off lanes and just sit and wait for your passenger. People did, but post 9/11, that ain't happening anymore. The big ass garage is right across from the new terminal and I think it's $6 for the first hour. Folks on reddit were complaining about paying $6 to park and wait. Or just park in the cell phone lot. It takes a couple minutes to drive from the cell phone lot to the new terminal. I don't get it.

[jhawks99]

I always just drove around in circles.
People picking me up are usually intentionally late.

[shindig]

someone please bring me up to speed. What's the issue with the old KC airport, and why the need for a new one?

all lifted Sierra Denalis aside, I always thought the old KC airport was pretty convenient. you could get dropped off within a few steps of your gate, thus undermining your mom's insistence on getting to the airport 3 hours before your flight takes off.

Contrast that with the Denver airport, which has tens of thousands of travelers a day going through the same single security line (that can often be measured in literal miles). I've legit spent over an hour just standing in the security line there...pretty sure I live blogged it in the travel thread (and also got scolded for not having TSA pre-check or whatever.)

Then from there, you gotta get on a train and ride miles to one of three terminals. Then from there, you gotta walk potentially more miles to finally get to your actual gate. Between all the driving and walking and train rides, you might as well just take a flight to get to your flight.

And that's not to mention the parking is miles away, the cell phone lot is even further, and all the car pickups funnel into the same little bottlenecks that tend to be a traffic jam.

Too many entry points which required more TSA folks and the general layout sucked post 9/11. Once you got to your gate, you were trapped in these little rooms without access to food or water. New terminal is like DIA, just not as big. You go through TSA screening, then are free to walk around the entire airport.

[ousdahl]

ah, thanks.

I remember it was something like that.

I guess my mindset is, I treat flying like little more than basic transportation, and don't need the airport to be yet another shopping/dining/comprehensive commercial experience. I'd rather be able to just get there and walk right up to the gate without having to spend more time than needed. I guess layovers are a little different.

and besides, airport food and beverage options tend to be awful regardless. Who wants to hang for hours at like a Burger King, anyway? or a goddamn John Elway steakhouse?

and now, having thought about my experiences at KCI, what's preventing travelers from simply walking up and down the corridors where there ARE Burger Kings, then just going through TSA and to their gate once they're ready to bored.

but if one end game is getting by with minimal TSA staff, I guess that's a consideration too.

[pdub]

someone please bring me up to speed. What's the issue with the old KC airport, and why the need for a new one?

all lifted Sierra Denalis aside, I always thought the old KC airport was pretty convenient. you could get dropped off within a few steps of your gate, thus undermining your mom's insistence on getting to the airport 3 hours before your flight takes off.

Contrast that with the Denver airport, which has tens of thousands of travelers a day going through the same single security line (that can often be measured in literal miles). I've legit spent over an hour just standing in the security line there...pretty sure I live blogged it in the travel thread (and also got scolded for not having TSA pre-check or whatever.)

Then from there, you gotta get on a train and ride miles to one of three terminals. Then from there, you gotta walk potentially more miles to finally get to your actual gate. Between all the driving and walking and train rides, you might as well just take a flight to get to your flight.

And that's not to mention the parking is miles away, the cell phone lot is even further, and all the car pickups funnel into the same little bottlenecks that tend to be a traffic jam.

Too many entry points which required more TSA folks and the general layout sucked post 9/11. Once you got to your gate, you were trapped in these little rooms without access to food or water. New terminal is like DIA, just not as big. You go through TSA screening, then are free to walk around the entire airport.

This December I flew out of KC and was crammed into the smallest of spaces with two mostly empty vending machines. There was one turkey sandwich that was 8 days expired that someone finally took the chance with because it was the ONLY thing left to eat.

[Sparko]

But the old terminals allowed you to park a few feet away. It will take time to embrace the suck that the rest of us so enjoy at these box airports.

You were never supposed to park in the drop off lanes and just sit and wait for your passenger. People did, but post 9/11, that ain't happening anymore. The big ass garage is right across from the new terminal and I think it's $6 for the first hour. Folks on reddit were complaining about paying $6 to park and wait. Or just park in the cell phone lot. It takes a couple minutes to drive from the cell phone lot to the new terminal. I don't get it.

I always parked in the handy parking lot across the street from the terminal when picking someone up.

[KUTradition]

KC Current doing big things

riverfront groundbreaking yesterday for the first stadium IN THE WORLD built for a women’s pro sports team

[Back2Lawrence]

I’m not sure what this means. The skeleton is mostly up already. They’ve been building frame since October.

It seems to be in a horrible location, if it’s deemed a ‘downtown’ stadium. I don’t think KC understands downtown. I’d have liked it to have replaced some of the dozens of open parking lots in actual downtown and possibly built into another residential/commercial district. But I dunno.

New airport is very pretty. It’s big and requires a decent amount of walking. No big deal for 98% of travelers. Every public works project I’ve seen in KC is met with resistance. This place is weird.

[Back2Lawrence]

And Ousdahl your take on Denver airport is also weird. There are two giant TSA checkpoints on either side of terminal building downstairs, as well as the north side to A gates security line (the one that I also used). As far as pick up/drop off, there was hardly ever too many cars, except maybe thanksgiving and perhaps 1-2 other days a year. It does take about 15 extra minutes to park and shuttle in. The light rail is a great great option to get back downtown. About a half an hour in total once on train.

[jfish26]

I’m not sure what this means. The skeleton is mostly up already. They’ve been building frame since October.

It seems to be in a horrible location, if it’s deemed a ‘downtown’ stadium. I don’t think KC understands downtown. I’d have liked it to have replaced some of the dozens of open parking lots in actual downtown and possibly built into another residential/commercial district. But I dunno.

New airport is very pretty. It’s big and requires a decent amount of walking. No big deal for 98% of travelers. Every public works project I’ve seen in KC is met with resistance. This place is weird.

I think the Current stadium is intended to expand the border of what you’d consider “downtown,” and promote infill.

I’m in favor of this approach - developing middle-out is a short-term thing. This is a lot healthier long-term.

[ousdahl]

Exactly.

tens of thousands of travelers going thru Denver airport daily, yet only TWO tsa checkpoints, one of which is often closed.

Granted, each checkpoint corrals you into one of like 8 or so different metal detectors/scanners/x ray machines.

Then walk down a bunch of stairs to a train station, which takes you to 1 of 3 different terminals or whatever.

Then back up stairs, and walk like up to half a mile to find your gate.

Compare all that to how the old KC airport let you get out of your ground transportation and just already be within a few paces of your gate.

[pdub]

But you were packed like sardines with one restaurant, if you were lucky it wasn’t full and was open, that sucked.

( old KC )

[Back2Lawrence]

I’m not sure what this means. The skeleton is mostly up already. They’ve been building frame since October.

It seems to be in a horrible location, if it’s deemed a ‘downtown’ stadium. I don’t think KC understands downtown. I’d have liked it to have replaced some of the dozens of open parking lots in actual downtown and possibly built into another residential/commercial district. But I dunno.

New airport is very pretty. It’s big and requires a decent amount of walking. No big deal for 98% of travelers. Every public works project I’ve seen in KC is met with resistance. This place is weird.

I think the Current stadium is intended to expand the border of what you’d consider “downtown,” and promote infill.

I’m in favor of this approach - developing middle-out is a short-term thing. This is a lot healthier long-term.

I don't know. There is so much vacant space everywhere, need to pick a district or two at a time and try to tie them together somehow. The 'growth' here is spotty, at best. My guess is that this new stadium is going to be driven to by 10k peeps from JoCo (mostly) and these people will get in their vehicles and drive right back to JoCo. It's the same reason why the K is such a dump for baseball (relative to a downtown stadium....the K is a beautiful facility).

[Back2Lawrence]

Exactly.

tens of thousands of travelers going thru Denver airport daily, yet only TWO tsa checkpoints, one of which is often closed.

Granted, each checkpoint corrals you into one of like 8 or so different metal detectors/scanners/x ray machines.

Then walk down a bunch of stairs to a train station, which takes you to 1 of 3 different terminals or whatever.

Then back up stairs, and walk like up to half a mile to find your gate.

Compare all that to how the old KC airport let you get out of your ground transportation and just already be within a few paces of your gate.

oh sure, the old KC airport was super convenient and quick. It was also obsolete post 9/11. Being a local now, I loved travelling in and out of the old building(s).

I'll still agree to disagree with you on the ease of use of DIA. It's pretty simple, and I never waited in security more than 20 minutes. I waited 15 the last time I flew out (on a thursday) of new KCI...they only had 4 security gates open. (I think there are 12-16 'regular tsa belts). I laughed.

[Back2Lawrence]

I'm also absolutely baffled as to why the river market isn't a night district. I'm sure there are lots of valid reasons I simply just am not aware of, but this seems like a waste of space, for the most part. Went down there on a date last summer (first time I had been down there since moving back)...it was 6 pm, and almost everything was closed, and no more than a couple dozen people milling about. I was over Denver pretty much when I moved, but the city center is far and away superior (for a city that has recently been in-filled). Minneapolis is about the same, to my understanding, right?

[Shirley]

I'm also absolutely baffled as to why the river market isn't a night district. I'm sure there are lots of valid reasons I simply just am not aware of, but this seems like a waste of space, for the most part...

You'd think it would have recovered by now, but this didn't help: (Note, the "River Quay", pronounced "key", is what the River Market Area used to be called.)

April 19, 1977 Violence Destroys a Boom In Kansas City's Old Section

Night finds the streets of the River Quay section all but deserted. A lone patron sipping a screwdriver at the bar of Poor Freddie's feels the solitude inside to be almost as eerie as that outside.

The owner of Poor Freddie's, Fred Bonadonna, is referred to as “owner‐inhiding.” He has been missing for several weeks now because, law enforcement officials say, he is fearful that a contract is out on his life. A barmaid and bartender eyed the patron suspiciously.

The Talk of River Quay

Two blocks away, police barricades are in front of a gaping crater where 100 pounds of dynamite obliterated Pat O'Brien's and Judge Roy Bean, two popular night spots, nearly three weeks ago. The blast also caused additional damage to The Warehouse, which had been the object of arsonists twice before.

There is quiet in River Quay, pronounced “key,” the original business section of Kansas City just north of the present downtown and south of the Missouri River. There is also fear.

In only five years, River Quay, a booming, popular and promising section some hoped would be comparable to the French Quarter in New Orleans, Old Town in Chicago, Ghirardelli Square in San Francisco or Underground in Atlanta, has been changed to an area in rapid decline.

The boarded‐up buildings, fleeing merchants, unprofitable businesses, deserted streets and lawsuits involving its developers confirm that fact, giving the section an appearance similar to other deteriorating inner cities.

But it's the second time around for River Quay: Many of the sturdy old buildings housed Kansas City institutions a century ago, including City Hall, the county court and two newspapers, but the area became a slum eventually.

The current decline resulted from an apparent attempt by the underworld to take control of River Quay and a subsequent battle among criminal elements over the issue. Besides the dynamite blast last month, there have been one other bombing, four murders, a kidnapping, robbery and arson.

“I don't go to River Quay anymore,” said Bart Hall, a freshman at Southwest Missouri State College. “It's too bad down there, you know, with all those bombings and killings. My friends and I are afraid. They now go to Pogo's, on the Kansas side. We heard that the Mafia was trying to take it over, so we stay away.”

The favorite three words of Marion A. Trozzolo, a former college instructor, are, “Imagery supersedes reality.” He repeated them as he led a tour of River Quay and as he sat drinking a beer in Victoria Station, the only business that still attracts a sizable number of patrons. “The change came when negative newspaper stories started and began linking the problems to the Mafia and to Italians,” he said.

Mr. Trozzolo, who owned a plastics company in the section at the time, conceived the idea of River Quay as a restored mixture of townhouse residences, small shops and boutiques, restaurants, artists' studios and craftsmen's workshops. A 51‐year‐old native of Italy who has degrees in economics and philosophy, Mr. Trozzolo grew up in Chicago and said that he had been influenced by memories of Old Town. “I guess I wanted the same thing for Kansas City,” he said.

He acquired 21 pieces of property and began realizing his dream in 1972.

“For two years, 1973 and 1974, things went great,” he said. “We had fun. It was a fun place to come and bring the entire family.

“But while I was in real estate, I was not a developer and I knew I couldn't handle such a project. The biggest problem was diversity of ownership. I didn't own a majority of the properties, and that was necessary to control use. And I was stretched thin.

“I needed capital, but local business people looked on River Quay as a Skid Row, a dumpy part of town. I couldn't find a local developer to take it over.

[...]

[Back2Lawrence]

Right. I know that history. That shouldn't matter at all. If it does, to the general populous of the area, then that's something completely different. This was 46 years ago.

This made me think. I graduated high school in 1991. World War II ended in 1945. That's also 46 years. And WWII, when I graduated, seemed like ancient history.