Kansas Crimson

shit, just saw a report that Walker's fiancee died in an accident last month. That may be an even more tragic twist to the wedding ring angle.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 7:47 am What kind of images would you prefer they use? Do the 10 white images bother you? Just the 2 black images? Equal? More? Less?

Sounds like they were forced by a previous problem to purchase a set that matched the racial di easily of their community but only seemed to have the two black targets up on the range when this class came through for their tour.

I would be curious to see if they ever actually use any of the other targets or if they are stuck in a closet to meet their required diversity quota.

5 questions still outstanding:

- how did a routine stop for an equipment violation escalate into a high-speed chase involving at least 13 cops? (and if the end game is public safety, is the best policy to engage in pursuit? We've seen this one before...if all they got him on the hook for is a broken taillight or whatever, why not just let him run, then go arrest him at home the next day?)
- has any alibi been suggested for why a door dash driver with no priors suddenly had a gun and a ski mask and a wedding ring - and some reason to run for the cops on top of that?
- is there any way to argue shooting at a suspect 90+ times is justifiable?
- a. is there any way to argue shooting 90+ times is a justifiable use of force?
b. Is there any way to argue it's not?
- would it make any difference if more evidence (particularly, evidence related to the initial moments of the stop, which, as far as know, has yet be released) suggested the cops were the ones to escalate things in the first place?

1. Because he didn't want to be caught with a gun?

2. The gun was enough reason to run?

3a. Yes, but not in this instance.
3b. Yes.

4. A lot depends on if he did in fact shoot at the cops. If he did, then that's a big deal.

5 more questions:

- have you or anyone else seen any body cam or other evidence/details from the initial moments?

- what exactly was the "equipment and traffic violation" that prompted the initial stop?

- if the cops said or did something stupid to be the ones to initially escalate the situation, does that change anything for the case, or for you?

- who says possession of a gun is necessarily criminal in itself?

- has anyone seen any further explanation regarding the wedding ring?

- should Jayland Walker have had the chance to explain himself in court?

1. No.
2. Not sure.
3. If he shot at them, then probably not.
4. It's not.
5. No.
6. Not if he shot at the cops.

well, the high speed pursuit was well underway by the time Walker allegedly shot

but, say the cops said something stupid - "we got you for a broken taillight, and now we're gonna fuck you up"... never mind, that still wouldn't change anything for illy.

and even if possessing a gun isn't necessarily criminal, it IS necessarily criminal when this guy did it - again, at least for illy.

cuz illy's the type of guy who wants cops playing judge, jury, and executioner. Folks shouldn't get their day in court no more. Not in illy's fascist America, they aint!

(the best part is the other half of the answers are illy acknowledging he hasn't even seen all the facts yet)

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:13 am 6. Not if he shot at the cops.

Any Second Amendment/Stand Your Ground people want to weigh in here? Isn’t the whole premise for private gun ownership (other than hunting and sport) to defend oneself from the government excess? In this case aren’t the police government?

zsn wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:27 am

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:13 am 6. Not if he shot at the cops.

Any Second Amendment/Stand Your Ground people want to weigh in here? Isn’t the whole premise for private gun ownership (other than hunting and sport) to defend oneself from the government excess? In this case aren’t the police government?

Did the cops shoot at him first? If not, then I think it becomes hard to justify shooting at the cops during a traffic stop.

well, what if they did?

or otherwise did something to escalate?

(I remember a similar vid from not too long ago when a uniformed military officer (of color) was pulled over, so he put on his hazard lights and slowly rolled into a lit gas station. The guy stops under the lights and puts his hands up. The cops run up, but instead of running up like "what's going on are you having some emergency I am here to protect and serve" they run up with weapons drawn, saying things like "MFer I will light your ass up!")

not that that matters.

especially not to illy.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:23 am 1. well, the high speed pursuit was well underway by the time Walker allegedly shot

2. but, say the cops said something stupid - "we got you for a broken taillight, and now we're gonna fuck you up"... never mind, that still wouldn't change anything for illy.

3. and even if possessing a gun isn't necessarily criminal, it IS necessarily criminal when this guy did it - again, at least for illy.

4. cuz illy's the type of guy who wants cops playing judge, jury, and executioner. Folks shouldn't get their day in court no more. Not in illy's fascist America, they aint!

5. (the best part is the other half of the answers are illy acknowledging he hasn't even seen all the facts yet)

1. So?
2. If someone walks up to person A and says they are going to fuck you up do you think person A should be allowed to shoot them? I don't.
3. I didn't say anything close to that.
4. You can't shoot at people and expect a day in court. Did this guy shoot at the police?
5. If you know something we don't just tell us....otherwise many of those questions are irrelevant and/or not known to the public.

Ousdahl doing his daily dance up to the moral high ground.

Maybe if you spent half as much time being a productive human as you do being an airhead around here then you wouldn't be nearly 40 living in a apartment with another grown man, hating life, and asking for guidance from internet acquaintances.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:41 am
4. You can't shoot at people and expect a day in court. Did this guy shoot at the police?

he did shoot at police, allegedly.

but that "allegedly" is big! He didn't shoot at police as a matter of legal conclusion. That's what a day in court is supposed to decide!

5. If you know something we don't just tell us....otherwise many of those questions are irrelevant and/or not known to the public.

something like what?

like how cops reported the gun they found in his car was not loaded?

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:43 am Ousdahl doing his daily dance up to the moral high ground.

Maybe if you spent half as much time being a productive human as you do being an airhead around here then you wouldn't be nearly 40 living in a apartment with another grown man, hating life, and asking for guidance from internet acquaintances.

do you mean to suggest that whatever shtick you bring around here is the moral low ground?

“classy”

ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:51 am

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:41 am
4. You can't shoot at people and expect a day in court. Did this guy shoot at the police?

1.
he did shoot at police, allegedly.

but that "allegedly" is big! He didn't shoot at police as a matter of legal conclusion. That's what a day in court is supposed to decide!

5. If you know something we don't just tell us....otherwise many of those questions are irrelevant and/or not known to the public.

2.

something like what?

like how cops reported the gun they found in his car was not loaded?

1. Yes the allegedly is big. If he didn't shoot at the cops, then they committed murder. A court will decide that.

2. Yes, a weapon with no bullets is "unloaded". If a gun is being fired, eventually it will become "unloaded".

in a sane world, whether cops committed murder would be a question not simply of whether or not they were fired upon first, but also of whether the force used by police to subdue was reasonable.

but this is Merica.

must stipulate…manslaughter or murder?

legalities are important

if they “feared for their lives”, it won’t be murder

KUTradition wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:16 am must stipulate…manslaughter or murder?

legalities are important

if they “feared for their lives”, it won’t be murder

In my opinion, if he didn't shoot at them, then they had no reason to fear for their lives, and it was murder.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:11 am

1. Yes the allegedly is big. If he didn't shoot at the cops, then they committed murder. A court will decide that.

2. Yes, a weapon with no bullets is "unloaded". If a gun is being fired, eventually it will become "unloaded".

well bear in mind, whether the gun was loaded or unloaded is only an allegation as well.

no one is in a position to determine whether the allegation was a conclusion, or whether it became unloaded as a result of him firing at cops, except for a court of law.

But unfortunately, once again, this guy doesn't get his day in court.

and like for real who would load a gun with just two bullets?