Chiefs 2023

[jfish26]

I am not trading the starting center for the Pro Bowl and a 2nd team All pro when he's on a rookie salary for a low value pick ( because centers are not valued when making trades ) when I want to try and go for a 3-peat.

And no matter how you look at it ( I look at it as LT's are still more valuable than RT's if you are a right handed quarterback just because of the standard way you face, even if you are mobile ) Jawaan Taylor is being significantly overpaid.

He's not a top 7 tackle.

Again, I don't disagree with you that he's overpaid relative to his ability. But I also feel like we're three rings in and you're still mad about DK Metcalf - my point, when we're talking about this offseason, is that the ink is dry here.

I'm not horny to trade Humphrey or Smith just for the sake of being transactional, and they're both plus players.

But I would always be pointing myself to success over a rolling next-three-years period (or something like that), and the reality of a capped league is that you're not going to retain both of them over that period. I would absolutely NOT treat this offseason any differently simply because a threepeat is on the table; if anything, the fact that we just won it in a retooling year would give me MORE confidence not to compromise medium-term outlook.

So, to me, ESPECIALLY with Humphrey's massive snap problems, I would orient myself toward keeping one of them (at RG) and maximizing asset value on the other one.

[pdub]

We'd have 5 rings if we had drafted DK Metcalf.
I don't think Humphrey's snap problems are as significant, overall, than you think.
Something was off this season moreso than in the past - and I think it can be fixed.

[jfish26]

We'd have 5 rings if we had drafted DK Metcalf.
I don't think Humphrey's snap problems are as significant, overall, than you think.
Something was off this season moreso than in the past - and I think it can be fixed.

(We're 2/2 on Super Bowls after trading Tyreek, and Metcalf is strong but couldn't exactly have stopped the Bucs' pass rush.)

Maybe it can be fixed. But - mileage varies I guess - I think we are incredibly lucky that the ball didn't bounce the wrong way in any of the three playoff games with zero margin.

And the snap thing is sort of ancillary to the bigger point, which I don't think is really debatable: we should not expect to keep both Humphrey and Smith after next year. In my opinion, the BEST thing to do in a situation like that is to move one of them now.

[Sparko]

Apparently some bonus generosity doesn't count against the cap, at least depending on how it is structured, so I expect the Hunts to pony up to keep the dynasty. But fantastic wealth and generosity are usually at odds. Too many unsigned players to feel good about next season yet.

[twocoach]

Issue is, next season, he's being paid as a top 2 right tackle.
He's not a top 2 right tackle.

The other issue is, next season, he's being paid as a top 7 tackle ( left or right ).
He's not a top 7 tackle.

If only Orlando Brown hadn't held out for a contract that was basically the same, if not worse, than what he got with the Bengals...we'd have an above average LT for a good deal less that we could have spent on a right tackle.

I don't disagree with that...but it's also spilled milk. I also think the industry consensus now is that, particularly when you have a right-handed mobile quarterback (like Pat), it's not the case that LT is significantly more valuable than RT (if it's still more valuable at all).

Point is, I'm not overly concerned with the line being (L to R) Morris, Thuney, Humphrey, Smith, Taylor.

I would also be VERY ok with moving on from either Humphrey or Smith this offseason, while they stand to bring something back in trade (realistically, we're talking middle-round).

Moving Humphrey or Smith is insanity.

Come on, people.

[jfish26]

Issue is, next season, he's being paid as a top 2 right tackle.
He's not a top 2 right tackle.

The other issue is, next season, he's being paid as a top 7 tackle ( left or right ).
He's not a top 7 tackle.

If only Orlando Brown hadn't held out for a contract that was basically the same, if not worse, than what he got with the Bengals...we'd have an above average LT for a good deal less that we could have spent on a right tackle.

I don't disagree with that...but it's also spilled milk. I also think the industry consensus now is that, particularly when you have a right-handed mobile quarterback (like Pat), it's not the case that LT is significantly more valuable than RT (if it's still more valuable at all).

Point is, I'm not overly concerned with the line being (L to R) Morris, Thuney, Humphrey, Smith, Taylor.

I would also be VERY ok with moving on from either Humphrey or Smith this offseason, while they stand to bring something back in trade (realistically, we're talking middle-round).

Moving Humphrey or Smith is insanity.

Come on, people.

Ok, then one walks after next year. Which is fine - but I don't think it's the best way to do this.

[twocoach]

I don't disagree with that...but it's also spilled milk. I also think the industry consensus now is that, particularly when you have a right-handed mobile quarterback (like Pat), it's not the case that LT is significantly more valuable than RT (if it's still more valuable at all).

Point is, I'm not overly concerned with the line being (L to R) Morris, Thuney, Humphrey, Smith, Taylor.

I would also be VERY ok with moving on from either Humphrey or Smith this offseason, while they stand to bring something back in trade (realistically, we're talking middle-round).

Moving Humphrey or Smith is insanity.

Come on, people.

Ok, then one walks after next year. Which is fine - but I don't think it's the best way to do this.

I seriously doubt it is as simple as that either/or.

[jfish26]

Moving Humphrey or Smith is insanity.

Come on, people.

Ok, then one walks after next year. Which is fine - but I don't think it's the best way to do this.

I seriously doubt it is as simple as that either/or.

I think it's basically the same thing as this offseason, with Gay and Tranquil (and Reid and Edwards).

Unless and until Pat is really ready to dial back his end, you just aren't going to be in a position to afford multiple B+ish guys (on non-rookie deals) in the same position group.

[pdub]

If someone was going to give up a high 4th for Trey Smith, before the draft, which they probably wouldn't, I'd think about moving him this season, yes. Then look to draft his replacement.

If we're talking a 5th or lower for Smith, i'd rather keep him for this upcoming season.

But those positions are positions of lower cost and lower draft value so I don't know if moving them would be worth it. ( And I do actually think you could manage to keep them both since at that point, you're probably looking at making their first year salaries low until you're off the books for Thuney ).

Moving Tyreek certainly was.

[pdub]

And it's fair to think you won't resign both ( I agree fish ) but another way to do that ( again since I don't think the return will be all that great on either ) is to draft whichever guy you think you won't resign's replacement this go around.

Give me DI/WR in the 1st 2 rounds...( or, gasp, a corner if you're already set to move on from Sneed ).
Then a couple O Line pieces.

One thing I haven't heard, which would be more manageable than hogging all that space before you could tag and trade Chris Jones, is tagging and trading Sneed. If the Lions offered their 29th pick for the rights to sign Sneed - are you in?

[jfish26]

Dub, agree with both of your posts. I will not lose any sleep if they keep both Humphrey and Smith on the 2024 roster, and work to backfill the spots.

The Jones/Sneed thing is fascinating.

Based on generally-applicable factors, I think it is clear that if you pay one of them, it should be Sneed. Younger, more versatile, in my opinion a more valuable position and role.

BUT, the Chiefs' track record in recent years with corners is pretty nuts (in a good way), and they absolutely loved Nazeeh Johnson (a 7th last year, will be back from a popped ACL). And as good as Sneed is relative to his position, Jones is probably even better. And I would imagine that Sneed would be significantly more likely to return the sort of value you're speaking to.

So to answer your question: yes, if the Lions offered 1-29 for Sneed, I am in.

[pdub]

Right.
I don't know if it's luck or just skill in identifying the types of guys who will succeed in our system ( I think it's more the latter ) but we've crushed our secondary drafts generally.

We have not done nearly as well on the defensive line side ( obviously we drafted Chris Jones and Karlaftis looks to be a keeper ) so if you're thinking you can just keep landing stud corners then pay Chris Jones and save the 20 million it'll take to sign Sneed and draft his replacement.

My sneaking suspicion is that the Chiefs move money around and kinda fuck themselves for the future and bring back BOTH Sneed and Chris Jones this next season -- whether that means tagging Sneed or not.

[jfish26]

Right.
I don't know if it's luck or just skill in identifying the types of guys who will succeed in our system ( I think it's more the latter ) but we've crushed our secondary drafts generally.

We have not done nearly as well on the defensive line side ( obviously we drafted Chris Jones and Karlaftis looks to be a keeper ) so if you're thinking you can just keep landing stud corners then pay Chris Jones and save the 20 million it'll take to sign Sneed and draft his replacement.

My sneaking suspicion is that the Chiefs move money around and kinda fuck themselves for the future and bring back BOTH Sneed and Chris Jones this next season -- whether that means tagging Sneed or not.

And if you DO have the secret sauce for turning late-round corners into starting caliber ones, then you have a bit of a draft pick factory on your hands.

[twocoach]

It will be interesting to see what kind of money KC is able to free up prior to the draft. Upcoming dates of importance:

February 20 - March 5 - Franchise tag window is open until March 5 at 4 p.m. ET.
March 11-13 - Legal tampering period begins on March 11 at 12 p.m. to March 13 at 4 p.m. ET.
March 13 - Free agency opens at 4 p.m. ET.
Apr 25- 27 - NFL Draft

[hartjack8]

Such interesting stuff. I think the Chiefs can get to around $50 million under the cap. IMO the Chiefs sign Jones and tag Sneed as long as Jones is willing to not break the bank. Then you draft a WR and a future Sneed replacement. We won this one with a killer defense. Keep that and add to offensive weapons.

[Sparko]

Hate to see Townsend go. But he is at the prime two-ring punter price

[pdub]

But, speaking of kickers, can we talk about how awesome it is to have probably the best kicker in football on our team?

[Sparko]

The thin margin which separated KC from the Ravens and 49ers was Butker. And Townsend's holds.

[KUTradition]

wow

Dr. Megan L. Garcia, a general surgeon at Kansas City's Grossman Burn Center, told Fox 4 this week that 70% of the medical center's patients referred for frostbite injuries suffered at the January wild-card game are "being advised to schedule amputations." This comes months after Garcia indicated she'd already seen dozens of frostbitten patients as a result of the game's conditions.

[DeletedUser]

wow

Dr. Megan L. Garcia, a general surgeon at Kansas City's Grossman Burn Center, told Fox 4 this week that 70% of the medical center's patients referred for frostbite injuries suffered at the January wild-card game are "being advised to schedule amputations." This comes months after Garcia indicated she'd already seen dozens of frostbitten patients as a result of the game's conditions.

Holy shit.

That should be the last time a game is played in temps like that. At least with fans allowed in attendance. Clearly people didn't make good choices.