The Great Outdoors

[ousdahl]

How DARE those wolves just show up and act like they own the place on land where ranchers lived and grazed their livestock for millennia previously!

Oh wait, might have that backwards.

But yeah, “let me kill the wolves, the things that are loosing me money” was the only real narrative about it pretty much since white folks showed up in Merica. That’s why in CO we have so few wolves, and don’t even have grizzlies any more at all...but we DO have problems with ballooning deer and elk populations, hmm.

But yeah, ranchers’ economic interests are among the many interests at play. For the longest time, it was only ranchers’ economic interests at play, since conservation wasn’t even a thing until relatively recently. But now conservation is an interest to be weighed too, as are even more peripheral effects like, grazing livestock can degrade public lands.

I dunno.

In the interest of balancing interests, I think it’s cool to see conservation get a bigger say, since the interest tipped solely towards rancher economics for plenty long now.

Other interests include the value of an apex predator to an ecosystem; the effect of loosing that value or of reintroducing that value,

[twocoach]

I think if you lost $38k youd feel differently.

Business environments change. You adapt or you fail. Such is the glory of our system. Create American jobs and design a solution.

Well his argument would be, let me kill the wolves, the things that are loosing me money.
So the glory of the system isn't just pure business - it's now being restricted by American regulations.
I lean towards protecting wildlife if it is actually proven to be endangered for sure - but if it's not, and they are fucking your property up, sorry wolf.

Sounds like killing the wolves is an option in Oregon if seen in the act of even chasing livestock. Does the fact that he rents his grazing land from an Indian Reservation vs. owning the land change the ranchers options?

https://www.capitalpress.com/ag_sectors ... 73a37.html

[ousdahl]

shit did I end that post with a comma?

I don’t even know where I was going with that.

[pdub]

"How DARE those wolves just show up and act like they own the place on land where ranchers lived and grazed their livestock for millennia previously!"

Well, then ( and this isn't me, really, speaking, because i'm not a rancher, just presenting the opposing argument ) just go back to twocoaches argument:

"You adapt or you fail."

Wolves failed. Evolution, survival of the fittest etc.

[ousdahl]

That’s a good argument I guess, but also short sighted, and exactly the kind of mindset we humans need to grow out of if we have any chance on this planet long term.

How far is too far to take the adapt or fail argument? If we chop down all the trees and drill up all the oil and use up all the water, what good does refraining “adapt or fail” do then?

I think, in bigger terms, we need to adapt or fail to a sense of conservation.

[pdub]

Global warmin'samyth.
Also, if it gets to that point, we'll just colonize Mars, or find an alternative fuel source, or somethin'.

[ousdahl]

Somebody just tell that ozone layer to stop being a pussy, and adapt or die.

[pdub]

Ozone layer v LeBron.
Bigger pussy?

[ousdahl]

Well ozone in a sense is invisible, so maybe there really was contact, instead of Lebron just trying to sell another flop?

[pdub]

But in real life, 95% of my yearly contributions go towards the environment or animals, so I'm not going to be very convincing as a gutter here.

[pdub]

Speaking of flops, I was rewatching 15 KU v 9 OSU 2014 this week, and that Marcus Smart flop from Wayne Selden's bows is still a pierce of art.

[ousdahl]

Ohh yeah.

Didn’t Selden get T’d up?

Then they show a replay and there’s plenty of space between his arm and Smart’s noggin.

[pdub]

Yup.
Also KU was up 11 with like 1:30 left and end up only winning by 2....and if not for Tharpe, believe it or not, we mighta lost.

[ousdahl]

Milf tits!

[ousdahl]

Wasn’t that also the year Smart ran into the stands and got in a physical fight with a fat tech fan?

Yet, still, received a much lesser suspension than Mac and Silvio.

[pdub]

I think that was the year.
Yes, Silvio gets half a season for picking up a chair and dropping it, but not fighting any actual fans, just some ksu player in white skinny pants.

[pdub]

I still have Marcus Smart flipping on our court though after beating our home court streak from...the year prior - seared in my nightmares?

[TDub]

Cant handle a dude asking for early check in at work. But, would be totally fine with a wolf killing his calves. Got it.


Im not for an all out open season on wolves. I like wolves. But if theyre killing my livestock....sorry, they gotta go. Sonce ODFW wont trap and relocate i guess that means the rancher must take care of it. Which, except in obvious cases of active wolf kills, results in ranchers distributing bacon grease soaked sponges around there property.

[ousdahl]

I still have Marcus Smart flipping on our court though after beating our home court streak from...the year prior - seared in my nightmares?

Bro but that wasn’t a flip.


Just a flop with a little too much English.

[ousdahl]

Cant handle a dude asking for early check in at work. But, would be totally fine with a wolf killing his calves. Got it.


Im not for an all out open season on wolves. I like wolves. But if theyre killing my livestock....sorry, they gotta go. Sonce ODFW wont trap and relocate i guess that means the rancher must take care of it. Which, except in obvious cases of active wolf kills, results in ranchers distributing bacon grease soaked sponges around there property.

I never said “totally fine,” I just said it’s a matter of balancing interests.

I too am not for an all out open season on wolves. So let’s realize that for the majority of the European settlement of North America, it has been open season.

To this day, how many ranchers follow the mantra of “shoot, shovel, shut up.”

I just think we can have some effective working policy/s that can balance competing interests.

Especially in the instance of grazing on public land, I think there should be public say in such a matter, rather than one party making decisions unilaterally.