Vick

[pdub]

I think DeSousa brings a little more than McCormack offensively and even more defensively.
McCormack is getting Mitch's minutes now.
Can Mitch get half a redshirt, like maybe a tank top?

[pdub]

Charlie Moore was a whiffer.
Grimes has underwhelmed obviously.
I still think we'd be heaping praise on the roster with a healthy Dok and a season long DeSousa.

[PhDhawk]

Bill's coaching grade for the 2018-19 season is still Incomplete. His GM grade seems to be settling into the C-/D+ level.

remember the end of last season though when we were all heaping praise on Self for this year's roster?

Hindsight is 20/20...

Well, not only that, but we gave him a pass on the 2017-18 roster because we had 3 transfers redshirting. It was supposed to be worth it because they were supposed to be that good...only one of them was.

[jfish26]

Bill's coaching grade for the 2018-19 season is still Incomplete. His GM grade seems to be settling into the C-/D+ level.

remember the end of last season though when we were all heaping praise on Self for this year's roster?

Hindsight is 20/20...

Because:

1. We thought Grimes was going to be great;

2. We thought Silvio was going to be available, and very very good; and

3. We thought Moore was going to be good.

Moore always, always stood out as the linchpin guy of whether this roster worked; he has sucked, so it hasn't.

[PhDhawk]

Charlie Moore was a whiffer.
Grimes has underwhelmed obviously.
I still think we'd be heaping praise on the roster with a healthy Dok and a season long DeSousa.

If we had our full roster of bigs, and could rotate guys in and always play two bigs at a time, we'd feel completely different about the roster...we'd just overwhelm people with size. Basically we'd do what UK did to us, to every team we faced. No one would care that McCormack was sped up or a little behind in that scenario and we'd be excited about the prospect of Mitch coming back after an extra year of development.

[CrimsonNBlue]

Bill's coaching grade for the 2018-19 season is still Incomplete. His GM grade seems to be settling into the C-/D+ level.

remember the end of last season though when we were all heaping praise on Self for this year's roster?

Hindsight is 20/20...

Well, not only that, but we gave him a pass on the 2017-18 roster because we had 3 transfers redshirting. It was supposed to be worth it because they were supposed to be that good...only one of them was.

I don't recall giving him a pass on last year as I was very pissed about having 5 scholarship players ineligible to play last season.

But, I have been giving Bill a pass on next season as I thought we'd be killing it this year. About that . . .

[PhDhawk]

Bill's coaching grade for the 2018-19 season is still Incomplete. His GM grade seems to be settling into the C-/D+ level.

remember the end of last season though when we were all heaping praise on Self for this year's roster?

Hindsight is 20/20...

Because:

1. We thought Grimes was going to be great;

2. We thought Silvio was going to be available, and very very good; and

3. We thought Moore was going to be good.

Moore always, always stood out as the linchpin guy of whether this roster worked; he has sucked, so it hasn't.

Moore might be the biggest whiff of Self's tenure here.

I'm not counting guys we gave the last roster spot to or someone you thought might be good down the line (Merv, Adams, etc). In terms of a guy you used a scholarship on that you depended on that could have gone to someone else.

[pdub]

Remembering how we were Cremo'ing our pants over maybe getting Cremo?
Turns out, he's an ordinary Joe.

[PhDhawk]

Remembering how we were Cremo'ing our pants over maybe getting Cremo?
Turns out, he's an ordinary Joe.

Villanova had a mass exodus of talent, their stud freshman is shitty and angry and their stud transfer is very mediocre...yet they've won about 10 in a row haven't they and we've dropped 4 since we beat them.

[jfish26]

remember the end of last season though when we were all heaping praise on Self for this year's roster?

Hindsight is 20/20...

Because:

1. We thought Grimes was going to be great;

2. We thought Silvio was going to be available, and very very good; and

3. We thought Moore was going to be good.

Moore always, always stood out as the linchpin guy of whether this roster worked; he has sucked, so it hasn't.

Moore might be the biggest whiff of Self's tenure here.

I'm not counting guys we gave the last roster spot to or someone you thought might be good down the line (Merv, Adams, etc). In terms of a guy you used a scholarship on that you depended on that could have gone to someone else.

And there really wasn't a backup plan in case Moore was bad (leaving Dotson as the sole lead guard). Which is sort of inexcusable, because you don't have to go very far back in recent KU history to see rosters undone by a lack of multiple competent ballhandlers.

[jfish26]

Remembering how we were Cremo'ing our pants over maybe getting Cremo?
Turns out, he's an ordinary Joe.

This team would kill for a guy like him who would at least bend the defense just by being on the floor. I'm old enough to remember when an average Joe named Conner did this with less.

[CrimsonNBlue]

Because:

1. We thought Grimes was going to be great;

2. We thought Silvio was going to be available, and very very good; and

3. We thought Moore was going to be good.

Moore always, always stood out as the linchpin guy of whether this roster worked; he has sucked, so it hasn't.

Moore might be the biggest whiff of Self's tenure here.

I'm not counting guys we gave the last roster spot to or someone you thought might be good down the line (Merv, Adams, etc). In terms of a guy you used a scholarship on that you depended on that could have gone to someone else.

And there really wasn't a backup plan in case Moore was bad (leaving Dotson as the sole lead guard). Which is sort of inexcusable, because you don't have to go very far back in recent KU history to see rosters undone by a lack of multiple competent ballhandlers.

I'm less worried about this knowing we do have one. In terms of the tournament, that is. It could very well be the undoing for the league title streak.

[NDballer13]

Yeah, I mean, I never stick up for the guy, but can you really blame him for being who he is?

Vick's play is not necessarily why this season has been so disappointing thus far. It's the fact that we need A- to A+ Vick in every game. And that has mostly to do with recruiting misses, injuries, and God Save the Rules.

part of me DOES wanna blame him for being who he is.

why can't he realize how much natural talent he's got, and put in the hard work and discipline to make the most of it?

and I dunno if it is really too much to ask a senior to bring his A game, at least more often than not. How many other seniors have done just that?

I guess my point is that we knew what we were getting when he was allowed back on the team. That's a big reason why I wasn't thrilled when he was allowed back and I won't shed a hint of a tear when his time is over here.

I guess I was a little more hopeful for consistent production after Self let him back on. Self was ready to move on and Vick was told by every professional front office guy he talked to what he was doing wasn't enough. I thought, for the sake of his own future, Vick would have been more aggressive. And I thought that maybe would have been one of the requirements, or whatever Self called them, in order for him to come back. All we've seen is the same thing we have for the past 3 years, just a higher usage rate.

Maybe that is on me, and other fans, for expecting more. It's just hard not to expect more when Self welcomes back a guy he was so set on never having play again. You'd think something would have changed in order to let him back.

[Deleted User 75]

Well, Self didn't exactly welcome him back with open arms. He was extremely hesitant.

And the main thing that changed was that Self realized we actually needed Vick. Whether that was due to missing out on recruits or whether it was due to some of our guys (KJ and Moore) not being nearly as good at this point as hoped for...maybe a little bit of both. We will never know for sure. But Self is a smart dude. Without Vick this year we'd be in trouble (all else the same/similar).

Even with the struggles we are still a 2 seed most likely. Without Vick we might be a 5 or 6 seed.

I'm keeping the faith. I think this is a team who can grind out victories with good defense. It's never going to be pretty offensively, but that's okay if the defense is elite.

[Lonestarjayhawk]

Without the Vick we love, Kansas doesn't go very far in the Tournament. I am for anything that produces 20-points each game from Vick. Fingers-crossed, moving him to a sixth-man with purpose or killing a live chicken in the locker room before each game. Whatever works...

[Deleted User 89]

[CrimsonNBlue]

part of me DOES wanna blame him for being who he is.

why can't he realize how much natural talent he's got, and put in the hard work and discipline to make the most of it?

and I dunno if it is really too much to ask a senior to bring his A game, at least more often than not. How many other seniors have done just that?

I guess my point is that we knew what we were getting when he was allowed back on the team. That's a big reason why I wasn't thrilled when he was allowed back and I won't shed a hint of a tear when his time is over here.

I guess I was a little more hopeful for consistent production after Self let him back on. Self was ready to move on and Vick was told by every professional front office guy he talked to what he was doing wasn't enough. I thought, for the sake of his own future, Vick would have been more aggressive. And I thought that maybe would have been one of the requirements, or whatever Self called them, in order for him to come back. All we've seen is the same thing we have for the past 3 years, just a higher usage rate.

Maybe that is on me, and other fans, for expecting more. It's just hard not to expect more when Self welcomes back a guy he was so set on never having play again. You'd think something would have changed in order to let him back.

Yeah it's pretty clear that he's just the kind of guy he is. He's going to have a tough time gutting out any kind of professional ball.

[NDballer13]

Well, Self didn't exactly welcome him back with open arms. He was extremely hesitant.

Which played into why I expected more. Vick had to have done something to convince Self he wasn't returning as the same person/player.

[jfish26]

Well, Self didn't exactly welcome him back with open arms. He was extremely hesitant.

Which played into why I expected more. Vick had to have done something to convince Self he wasn't returning as the same person/player.

Or, Charlie was getting his butt kicked on the red team.

[Deleted User 75]

Well, Self didn't exactly welcome him back with open arms. He was extremely hesitant.

Which played into why I expected more. Vick had to have done something to convince Self he wasn't returning as the same person/player.

Ya you'd think....the benching punishment for showing up late for shootaround less than 10 games into the season had to be a signal he's just not capable of staying out of the dog house with Self. We're going to have to ride the bumpy rollercoaster until the wheels fall off. Self included.