Kansas Crimson

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:24 am I was also thinking that, in 16 seasons, this is the first time (or 2nd if you count 2005), where seemingly nothing goes right. Very fortunate.

Most schools would use this type of season to defend not firing a coach.

We are so spoiled/lucky/consistent. This is a "down year" for us.....and we've been avoiding a down year for over a decade. It's insane.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:25 am We're probably past due on Grimes, but now he's really under the microscope.

And, to a lesser extent, McCormack.

Loosing Vick is likely going necessitate playing 2 bigs more...again

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:33 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:25 am We're probably past due on Grimes, but now he's really under the microscope.

And, to a lesser extent, McCormack.

Loosing Vick is likely going necessitate playing 2 bigs more...again

If Bill plays him . . .

I and other posters have long bitched about Bill's tendency to not develop his deeper depth in nonconference games and throughout the first half of the season. That might bite us again this season.

Granted, we play the hardest noncon schedule in the country every single season.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:25 am We're probably past due on Grimes, but now he's really under the microscope.

was just thinking the same

maybe, just maybe this forces the rest of the guys out of any reliance they've had on others, and rise to the occasion

Ochai developed most out of probably everyone this year and he did it without game play. We need DMac to improve similarly even though he's not getting minutes. It's possible. Some guys need game play others can improve thru practice. It's a coin flip.

But either way, I don't see any reason why we aren't trying to change our identity to a power team by playing dedric and DMac together....my guess is that some of us playing only 1 big is so we can switch as much on the perimeter possible, which is fine, but sometimes switching everything seems lazy. Just lock your fucking man up.

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:47 am Ochai developed most out of probably everyone this year and he did it without game play.

We don't know that at all.

It's pretty clear that Ochai was under-recruited and came in way ahead than what everyone thought.

Personnel played a way bigger role in RS'ing Ochai than where he was at as a player.

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:47 am Ochai developed most out of probably everyone this year and he did it without game play. We need DMac to improve similarly even though he's not getting minutes. It's possible. Some guys need game play others can improve thru practice. It's a coin flip.

But either way, I don't see any reason why we aren't trying to change our identity to a power team by playing dedric and DMac together....my guess is that some of us playing only 1 big is so we can switch as much on the perimeter possible, which is fine, but sometimes switching everything seems lazy. Just lock your fucking man up.

To your first point, I don't give a fuck whether an individual player improves in practice or during games, but the only proof of that improvement comes in games.

To your second point, loosing Vick will force us to play 2 bigs because inevitably we'll have games with foul trouble,etc. that force us to play that way whether we like it or not...unless we convince ourselves that KJ is a guard and not a big (personally I think he's not really either) or start playing Teahan or Luinstra meaningful minutes.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:49 am

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:47 am Ochai developed most out of probably everyone this year and he did it without game play.

We don't know that at all.

It's pretty clear that Ochai was under-recruited and came in way ahead than what everyone thought.

Personnel played a way bigger role in RS'ing Ochai than where he was at as a player.

wasn't there an injury as well?

We will never know now. He certainly looked a lot better when he came out of RS than we he did in early season exhibitions.

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:53 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:49 am

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:47 am Ochai developed most out of probably everyone this year and he did it without game play.

We don't know that at all.

It's pretty clear that Ochai was under-recruited and came in way ahead than what everyone thought.

Personnel played a way bigger role in RS'ing Ochai than where he was at as a player.

wasn't there an injury as well?

Yep.

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:53 am We will never know now. He certainly looked a lot better when he came out of RS than we he did in early season exhibitions.

He didn't miss a single shot in the exhibitions.

Self's mistake was taking on Charlie Moore (although we might need him, now). The dynamic of the team at the time was to use the rich big man depth and Self wanted an extra ballhandler, which is understandable. Personnel-wise, an extra wing was the odd-man out and then the injury made it an easier decision.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:58 am

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:53 am We will never know now. He certainly looked a lot better when he came out of RS than we he did in early season exhibitions.

He didn't miss a single shot in the exhibitions.

Ok...are you trying to say he didn't improve while he wasn't playing in games? He looked much better overall. Not missing a few shots in exhibitions isn't evidence of anything other than he made a few shots. Were they layups? Was his defense as good? His awareness?

I find it very hard to believe he didn't improve a ton between the beginning of the year and now. Imo it's been the most improvement of anyone outside of maybe Dotson. It's an opinion and is not quantifiable so we could go around and around.

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:03 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:58 am

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:53 am We will never know now. He certainly looked a lot better when he came out of RS than we he did in early season exhibitions.

He didn't miss a single shot in the exhibitions.

Ok...are you trying to say he didn't improve while he wasn't playing in games? He looked much better overall. Not missing a few shots in exhibitions isn't evidence of anything other than he made a few shots. Were they layups? Was his defense as good? His awareness?

I find it very hard to believe he didn't improve a ton between the beginning of the year and now. Imo it's been the most improvement of anyone outside of maybe Dotson. It's an opinion and is not quantifiable so we could go around and around.

Ochai wasn't some scrub bench player in November. I was at those games, he clearly belonged. He was moving, dunking, and shooting 3's.

Sure, off course he improved some since the first exhibition, every player has. But that is not the point at all and you're again not following the argument. Ochai, as an example, doesn't even come close to supporting your assertion that game experience doesn't help development. Of course it does. And, in some cases, drastically.

It's really one of the most asinine things you've come up with and makes me wonder if you've ever been around competitive ball. Not a single coach would agree with that. And, for a raw big man, game speed is probably the biggest adjustment there is. It is absolutely not something you can simulate in practice or drills.

Well except I didn't say it doesn't help. I said it helps more in some cases rather than others. It's not needed 100% of the time. DMac could be improving in practice just like Ochai did.

Ben McLemore improved a SHIT TON between years 1 and 2 without ever playing a game.

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:22 amit helps more in some cases rather than others.

Yes. Like raw big men.



Also, Ben was a top 25 recruit. There were some recruiting nerds that thought he was better than teammate Bradley Beal. Everyone that saw practices said Ben was the best player on the 2012 team. Another bad example.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:32 am

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:22 amit helps more in some cases rather than others.

Yes. Like raw big men.



Also, Ben was a top 25 recruit. There were some recruiting nerds that thought he was better than teammate Bradley Beal. Everyone that saw practices said Ben was the best player on the 2012 team. Another bad example.

Was Ben protected as a top 5 pick coming in as a freshman? No...

Hell, if he'd have even been a 1st rounder after sitting out a year he'd have never played a game at Kansas. He wasn't. He improved greatly during his year sitting out even though he wasn't playing in games.

This is a dumb argument. All I said was DMac COULD be improving even without game minutes. Of course game minutes can and do help players develop in many/most instances. But players can develop without it too.

This is by far the most boring Kansas team I’ve ever watched. Games are fucking tedious.

were you watching the osu game? not boring or tedious