Kansas Crimson

You don't live a life of poverty. And if you think you do then you should take a look around the world.

Excess isn't for you or the governement to decide. You think at a certain point rich people should have their assets confiscated so the governement can decide how to use them (and we know the governement never has issues with excess LOL), which is fucking lunacy to me....but it's okay to disagree.

I didn’t say I live a life of poverty. I said “how many of us” in some collective sense. (The royal “we,” dude…I’m not driving the car handling the money and talking on the phone, man!)

Since you complimented Bezos’ work ethic…how do you measure that? do you think he works harder than the single parent working 3 jobs so their kids can eat?

And if excess isn’t for me or the gummint to decide, then how come so many other Mericans are allowed to decide food stamps are excessive? (But not space vacations)

Their things are too nice! Their vacations are too nice! We NEED the gummint to confiscate their wealth so that Ous doesn't have to worry about ealry check ins.

And i think the people who are against food stamps are idiots for the record.

Needs vs wants.

Food. Shelter. Etc.

Unfortunately we won't all be smart enough, lucky enough, or work hard enough to have vacation homes and drive high end cars.

I am happy in my explorer and in my house that i pay for. I work (not that hard) to pay for those things. Rich man bad isn't holding me down by going to space.

Why’s that?

Edit cuz illy added more comments to that post: regarding food stamps.

And needs vs wants is a good distinction to draw.

Is it more important to provide for the needs or the many? Or the wants of the few?

ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:43 am And needs vs wants is a good distinction to draw.

Is it more important to provide for the needs or the many? Or the wants of the few?

Those rich people are providing for their space trip themselves. They have positioned themselves to achieve their wants. Good for them.

We can should and do take care of the needs of many. Can we do better? Sure. Is it the rich people's fault we don't? No.


But i also don't agree that it's okay to do nothing an expect the gummint to provide food housing iphones cars and cable tv. Is abuse like that a huge problem? No, not nearly as big as the right pretends it is.

Where do we draw the line?

I think we all want tax reform and EVERYONE to pay their fair share.

As with everything be careful what you wish for. This idea that the uber rich aren't paying a boatload in taxes is just not based in reality.

The first part of your post addresses the concept of the “self-made” billionaire. How many are there, really? Is there any billionaire out there who got to where they are as a one-man operation, with no partners or employees to speak of, and without any reliance on any public infrastructure or security?

The second part - yeah I guess the gummint, in some ways, makes it easier or more affordable to access food and housing. If they’re providing phones cars and cable, it’s prob cuz of some loophole rich folks are taking advantage of, more so than poor folks. And equating food with cable tv, lulz

But then you loose me with tax reform wanting everyone pay their fair share, cuz that sounds like fringe left wing shit that belongs in the radicalism thread

So...where does the money that someone like Bezos spends come from? Literally.

I mean, he doesn't get a salary, all his wealth is in stocks. He lives like a baller though. So, when he buys a $165,000,000 house, or a car, or when he goes on vacation or out to eat...where does that money come from? Is it dividends, did he sell off a small amount of stock?

Because that's what should be taxed. I get why you don't tax investments before they're sold, but he's got MONEY, he's spending MONEY, where does that come from? If it's dividends, raise the tax rate on dividends for people who have more than $500 million in investments.

I mean, at the end of the day, what Ousdahl wants is for everyone to pay their fair share...but that's NEVER going to happen with an income tax...no matter how you structure it. The only people who get INCOME, are almost by definition, the people who work for the uber-rich. So they're not exploiting a loop hole, they were never the target of an income tax to begin with.

When Bezos sells his ticket to space for $30 million, shouldn't he at least pay like $10 million of that in income tax?

I didn't equate food to cable. I said if you do NOTHING (reasonable explanations not included) and expect that stuff i don't agree it should just be provided.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:54 am

ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:43 am And needs vs wants is a good distinction to draw.

Is it more important to provide for the needs or the many? Or the wants of the few?

Those rich people are providing for their space trip themselves. They have positioned themselves to achieve their wants. Good for them.

We can should and do take care of the needs of many. Can we do better? Sure. Is it the rich people's fault we don't? No.


But i also don't agree that it's okay to do nothing an expect the gummint to provide food housing iphones cars and cable tv. Is abuse like that a huge problem? No, not nearly as big as the right pretends it is.

Where do we draw the line?

I think we all want tax reform and EVERYONE to pay their fair share.

As with everything be careful what you wish for. This idea that the uber rich aren't paying a boatload in taxes is just not based in reality.

But, they aren't, or at least some of them aren't. Bezos, Buffett, Bloomberg, and Musk, don't.

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:13 pm

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:54 am

ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:43 am And needs vs wants is a good distinction to draw.

Is it more important to provide for the needs or the many? Or the wants of the few?

Those rich people are providing for their space trip themselves. They have positioned themselves to achieve their wants. Good for them.

We can should and do take care of the needs of many. Can we do better? Sure. Is it the rich people's fault we don't? No.


But i also don't agree that it's okay to do nothing an expect the gummint to provide food housing iphones cars and cable tv. Is abuse like that a huge problem? No, not nearly as big as the right pretends it is.

Where do we draw the line?

I think we all want tax reform and EVERYONE to pay their fair share.

As with everything be careful what you wish for. This idea that the uber rich aren't paying a boatload in taxes is just not based in reality.

But, they aren't, or at least some of them aren't. Bezos, Buffett, Bloomberg, and Musk, don't.

In personal income taxes? (i am assuming there)...

Not all income is taxed the same. S corps and partnerships are taxed different than corporations. It doesn't all flow the same to personal tax returns.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:21 pm

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:13 pm

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:54 am

Those rich people are providing for their space trip themselves. They have positioned themselves to achieve their wants. Good for them.

We can should and do take care of the needs of many. Can we do better? Sure. Is it the rich people's fault we don't? No.


But i also don't agree that it's okay to do nothing an expect the gummint to provide food housing iphones cars and cable tv. Is abuse like that a huge problem? No, not nearly as big as the right pretends it is.

Where do we draw the line?

I think we all want tax reform and EVERYONE to pay their fair share.

As with everything be careful what you wish for. This idea that the uber rich aren't paying a boatload in taxes is just not based in reality.

But, they aren't, or at least some of them aren't. Bezos, Buffett, Bloomberg, and Musk, don't.

In personal income taxes? (i am assuming there)...

Not all income is taxed the same. S corps and partnerships are taxed different than corporations. It doesn't all flow the same to personal tax returns.

I'm not an expert on this but from the ever reliable wikipedia:

In general, S corporations do not pay any income taxes. Instead, the corporation's income and losses are divided among and passed through to its shareholders. The shareholders must then report the income or loss on their own individual income tax returns.

So, unless I'm reading wrong, or wikipedia is wrong, if Bezos ain't paying income taxes, he's not paying it through an S corporation either.

Yeah, I’m advocating for some more egalitarian system in which the folks with more wealth pay more taxes, not less, in a way that is proportional to their wealth

It’s been mentioned before too, but, perhaps we need a sales tax instead of/in addition to income tax.

That way, folks are taxed on consumption more so than income. And private jets and yachts could be taxed differently than bread and eggs.

Also in no way saying those types shouldn't necessarily pay more.

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:30 pm

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:21 pm

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:13 pm
But, they aren't, or at least some of them aren't. Bezos, Buffett, Bloomberg, and Musk, don't.

In personal income taxes? (i am assuming there)...

Not all income is taxed the same. S corps and partnerships are taxed different than corporations. It doesn't all flow the same to personal tax returns.

I'm not an expert on this but from the ever reliable wikipedia:

In general, S corporations do not pay any income taxes. Instead, the corporation's income and losses are divided among and passed through to its shareholders. The shareholders must then report the income or loss on their own individual income tax returns.

So, unless I'm reading wrong, or wikipedia is wrong, if Bezos ain't paying income taxes, he's not paying it through an S corporation either.

S corps and partnerships pass thru to personal returns where they are taxed. Corporations do not show the same way on personal returns because they are taxed seperately.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:39 pm Also in no way saying those types shouldn't necessarily pay more.

so much for not letting the gummint confiscate their wealth

ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:34 pm Yeah, I’m advocating for some more egalitarian system in which the folks with more wealth pay more taxes, not less, in a way that is proportional to their wealth

Wealth vs income. It gets tricky there.

If it's as a % of income, you may be surprised that in many instances iirc they already pay a higher % than those of us in poorer tax brackets.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:42 pm

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:30 pm

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:21 pm

In personal income taxes? (i am assuming there)...

Not all income is taxed the same. S corps and partnerships are taxed different than corporations. It doesn't all flow the same to personal tax returns.

I'm not an expert on this but from the ever reliable wikipedia:

In general, S corporations do not pay any income taxes. Instead, the corporation's income and losses are divided among and passed through to its shareholders. The shareholders must then report the income or loss on their own individual income tax returns.

So, unless I'm reading wrong, or wikipedia is wrong, if Bezos ain't paying income taxes, he's not paying it through an S corporation either.

S corps and partnerships pass thru to personal returns where they are taxed. Corporations do not show the same way on personal returns because they are taxed seperately.

but, we're not talking about corporations. we're talking about individuals.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:45 pm

ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:34 pm Yeah, I’m advocating for some more egalitarian system in which the folks with more wealth pay more taxes, not less, in a way that is proportional to their wealth

Wealth vs income. It gets tricky there.

If it's as a % of income, you may be surprised that in many instances iirc they already pay a higher % than those of us in poorer tax brackets.

But that's not what the propublica article, that started this, was saying.