Kansas Crimson

jfish26 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:46 am

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:44 am I read that Gruden was using his personal account.

I don't think so, but that's not better anyway! Hiding your racist, homophobic side doesn't make that side of you any less ugly.

And takes away any kind of "I was misunderstood" defense.

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:52 am "In many of the emails in question, Gruden corresponds with former Washington team president Bruce Allen, among others. Gruden and Allen worked together in Gruden's first stint as Raiders coach and with the Buccaneers. The emails occurred when Gruden was working at ESPN. Gruden used his personal email account, while Allen used his team account."

Ignorance isn't a defense. Failing to think about the fact that emails you send out get scanned and saved at their endpoint is just dumb.

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:44 am I read that Gruden was using his personal account.

Irrelevant other than Disney not facing issues for failing to notice the emails sent from a Disney ESPN email account.

If he used his personal email account to send kiddie porn, would it make it OK because he assumed his email was "private"?

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:56 am

jfish26 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:46 am

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:44 am I read that Gruden was using his personal account.

I don't think so, but that's not better anyway! Hiding your racist, homophobic side doesn't make that side of you any less ugly.

And takes away any kind of "I was misunderstood" defense.

I believe someone in a particular line of work might call it mens rea. Taking steps to conceal one's bad acts is evidence of a person knowing the acts are bad!

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:56 am

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:52 am "In many of the emails in question, Gruden corresponds with former Washington team president Bruce Allen, among others. Gruden and Allen worked together in Gruden's first stint as Raiders coach and with the Buccaneers. The emails occurred when Gruden was working at ESPN. Gruden used his personal email account, while Allen used his team account."

Ignorance isn't a defense. Failing to think about the fact that emails you send out get scanned and saved at their endpoint is just dumb.

Again, I agree it is dumb, because I understand what it currently is.
I also agree that the emails were ugly.

But I think there ought to be protections against emails being made public - most certainly if it is from a personal account.

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:48 am people are just dumb

why leave any sort of digital trail? though, i doubt gruden actually thought anything he was doing was all that inappropriate. he’s always come off as a bit of a dick

Racist, misogynistic homophobes rarely see anything wrong with their racist, misogynistic homophobic views. It's what makes them racist, misogynistic homophobes.

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:54 am I'm not disagreeing with the fact that he said ugly things.
I'm just disagreeing with the use of ( what I think - I repeat - what I think, not what is currently ) a private conversation to then fire ( instead of asking the players/staff who they think Gruden is as a person, now, and whether this was forgivable -- and if they did that, and the answer was no, then I don't disagree with his firing ) him.

Who is talking about forgiveness here? I thought his statement was about as well as someone can do in the circumstance.

The issue isn't what is presently in Gruden's soul.

It's that, as a practical matter, he is now unemployable as the leader of a team that is something like 80% black (and which has sizable fan and advertiser contingents from the female and LGTBQ community, and of course the black community).

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:00 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:56 am

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:52 am "In many of the emails in question, Gruden corresponds with former Washington team president Bruce Allen, among others. Gruden and Allen worked together in Gruden's first stint as Raiders coach and with the Buccaneers. The emails occurred when Gruden was working at ESPN. Gruden used his personal email account, while Allen used his team account."

Ignorance isn't a defense. Failing to think about the fact that emails you send out get scanned and saved at their endpoint is just dumb.

Again, I agree it is dumb, because I understand what it currently is.
I also agree that the emails were ugly.

But I think there ought to be protections against emails being made public - most certainly if it is from a personal account.

Huh????

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:00 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:56 am

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:52 am "In many of the emails in question, Gruden corresponds with former Washington team president Bruce Allen, among others. Gruden and Allen worked together in Gruden's first stint as Raiders coach and with the Buccaneers. The emails occurred when Gruden was working at ESPN. Gruden used his personal email account, while Allen used his team account."

Ignorance isn't a defense. Failing to think about the fact that emails you send out get scanned and saved at their endpoint is just dumb.

Again, I agree it is dumb, because I understand what it currently is.
I also agree that the emails were ugly.

But I think there ought to be protections against emails being made public - most certainly if it is from a personal account.

I teach my children that you have zero control of anything you send out digitally. Zero. If you do not want something made public, then do not send it out digitally. Period. You have zero control of it once it goes out and any right to privacy is irrelevant after the fact. It's as naive as expecting your significant other to keep a nude selfie you send them "private" just because they said they would.

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:58 am

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:44 am I read that Gruden was using his personal account.

Irrelevant other than Disney not facing issues for failing to notice the emails sent from a Disney ESPN email account.

If he used his personal email account to send kiddie porn, would it make it OK because he assumed his email was "private"?

Send an email/text to a victim saying you're going to beat the shit out of them and then bitch about the victim (who now also has ownership rights) giving it to the police, lol.

Did Bruce Allen turn in Gruden's emails into the police?
Was Gruden threatening someone's life?

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:07 am Did Bruce Allen turn in Gruden's emails into the police?
Was Gruden threatening someone's life?

Was he arrested?
Is he facing jail time?

Questions as irrelevant as yours.

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:09 am

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:07 am Did Bruce Allen turn in Gruden's emails into the police?
Was Gruden threatening someone's life?

Was he arrested?
Is he facing jail time?

Questions as irrelevant as yours.

"Send an email/text to a victim saying you're going to beat the shit out of them and then bitch about the victim (who now also has ownership rights) giving it to the police, lol."

"If he used his personal email account to send kiddie porn, would it make it OK because he assumed his email was "private"?"

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:04 am

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:00 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:56 am

Ignorance isn't a defense. Failing to think about the fact that emails you send out get scanned and saved at their endpoint is just dumb.

Again, I agree it is dumb, because I understand what it currently is.
I also agree that the emails were ugly.

But I think there ought to be protections against emails being made public - most certainly if it is from a personal account.

I teach my children that you have zero control of anything you send out digitally. Zero. If you do not want something made public, then do not send it out digitally. Period. You have zero control of it once it goes out and any right to privacy is irrelevant after the fact. It's as naive as expecting your significant other to keep a nude selfie you send them "private" just because they said they would.

^^^^^

how many people need to be made examples of before this train of thought becomes second nature?

seriously, i’ve been if this opinion for damn near 20 years

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:10 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:04 am

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:00 am

Again, I agree it is dumb, because I understand what it currently is.
I also agree that the emails were ugly.

But I think there ought to be protections against emails being made public - most certainly if it is from a personal account.

I teach my children that you have zero control of anything you send out digitally. Zero. If you do not want something made public, then do not send it out digitally. Period. You have zero control of it once it goes out and any right to privacy is irrelevant after the fact. It's as naive as expecting your significant other to keep a nude selfie you send them "private" just because they said they would.

^^^^^

how many people need to be made examples of before this train of thought becomes second nature?

seriously, i’ve been if this opinion for damn near 20 years

And again, all of this was years past the point where this all became really obvious.

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:10 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:04 am

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:00 am

Again, I agree it is dumb, because I understand what it currently is.
I also agree that the emails were ugly.

But I think there ought to be protections against emails being made public - most certainly if it is from a personal account.

I teach my children that you have zero control of anything you send out digitally. Zero. If you do not want something made public, then do not send it out digitally. Period. You have zero control of it once it goes out and any right to privacy is irrelevant after the fact. It's as naive as expecting your significant other to keep a nude selfie you send them "private" just because they said they would.

^^^^^

how many people need to be made examples of before this train of thought becomes second nature?

seriously, i’ve been if this opinion for damn near 20 years

Sometimes, you just need a safe space to say racist shit.

Hey, what's your company email address, by the way?

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:12 am

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:10 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:04 am
I teach my children that you have zero control of anything you send out digitally. Zero. If you do not want something made public, then do not send it out digitally. Period. You have zero control of it once it goes out and any right to privacy is irrelevant after the fact. It's as naive as expecting your significant other to keep a nude selfie you send them "private" just because they said they would.

^^^^^

how many people need to be made examples of before this train of thought becomes second nature?

seriously, i’ve been if this opinion for damn near 20 years

Sometimes, you just need a safe space to say racist shit.

Hey, what's your company email address, by the way?

Serious Person: "How exactly should we sort through how a person's past misdeeds and indiscretions affects their life and livelihood, if not discovered until several years later?"

Nonserious Person: "Well, if the person thought they were doing the bad things in private, and that person can get people to say they like the person now, not much tbh."

10 years from now, when someone digs up the post where CnB said he thinks Josh Jackson would be arrested if he had stayed at KU and attributes it to CnB, and, because in 2031 that is now deemed highly inappropriate, he has to resign from his job, I wonder if he will think about his post, "sometimes you just need a safe space to say racist shit."

LOL.

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4026

jfish26 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:18 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:12 am

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:10 am
^^^^^

how many people need to be made examples of before this train of thought becomes second nature?

seriously, i’ve been if this opinion for damn near 20 years

Sometimes, you just need a safe space to say racist shit.

Hey, what's your company email address, by the way?

Serious Person: "How exactly should we sort through how a person's past misdeeds and indiscretions affects their life and livelihood, if not discovered until several years later?"

Nonserious Person: "Well, if the person thought they were doing the bad things in private, and that person can get people to say they like the person now, not much tbh."

I am not that nonserious person.
I don't think firing them is the first route you go. Nor punching them in the face.
And it's not just anyone getting people to say they like the person now - it's his direct coworkers.