Kansas Crimson

AlOerter wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 1:16 pm

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 12:06 pm

AlOerter wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 10:55 am I think Tshiebwe's deal is a disservice to him. He is ready to be an impact player in the NBA now.

No he's not (imo)

I don't think that he will ever be an "impact" player in the NBA. His ceiling feels like a role player to me.

I guess we have a different definition of "impact". The NBA is full of role players who make an impact on a team where they fit. Rodman was an impact player but he didn't exactly light it up on offense.

Rodman is a top 100 player in NBA history.

Tschiebwe may never start a single game in the NBA.

pdub wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 1:21 pm

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 12:12 pm

Sparko wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 12:05 pm Jeez. Imagine all the dark money we never saw.

This is exactly it.

The NIL system makes college sports way better

Absolutely does not.
It makes it way worse.
If it was simply college students making money on their own, reaching out to businesses or getting paid for advertising on their social channels, ok, sure, but this is clearly we will pay you 800k if you play for Miami. If you dont, you do not get this deal.

2022 might be the time I remember last liking college ball. Helluva way to go out.

Do you think Remy came to KU for free?

Do you think rules should exist or not?
I.e. should you be able to buy alcohol at a certain age?
Should you only be able to collect 200 when you round Go in Monopoly?
If people are going to break the rule, should we even have it?

We are in trouble for breaking the rules.

Itd be like if I was super into speed chess and was in a speed chess club but players weren't following the clock rules on occasion and instead of figuring out how to fix it, they stopped with the clock. Then I stopped playing speed chess there.

pdub wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 2:46 pm Do you think rules should exist or not?
I.e. should you be able to buy alcohol at a certain age?
Should you only be able to collect 200 when you round Go in Monopoly?
If people are going to break the rule, should we even have it?

We are in trouble for breaking the rules.

Itd be like if I was super into speed chess and was in a speed chess club but players weren't following the clock rules on occasion and instead of figuring out how to fix it, they stopped with the clock. Then I stopped playing speed chess there.

I think your stance is totally reasonable. You don't like any of it, and you have been consistent with that since the jump.

I just think if basically nobody follows the rules (the old ones), and the rules aren't even enforced as long as the violations don't become public knowledge, then that's equally as problematic. Coaches having to avoid wire taps so money can get to players, shoe companies being lead recruiters for the top schools, and handlers operating behind the scenes to get lists of demands met is worse to me.

Those NIL offers are not supposed to be presented as a "you must come here to get X $$$"....and having been told by someone who has paid UofI players for NIL and how the documentation works and how offers have to be presented to stay in compliance, i think this way is a lot better than the old way. It's all documented and is taxable income.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 2:35 pm

AlOerter wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 1:16 pm

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 12:06 pm

No he's not (imo)

I don't think that he will ever be an "impact" player in the NBA. His ceiling feels like a role player to me.

I guess we have a different definition of "impact". The NBA is full of role players who make an impact on a team where they fit. Rodman was an impact player but he didn't exactly light it up on offense.

Rodman is a top 100 player in NBA history.

Tschiebwe may never start a single game in the NBA.

Rodman would have soon been forgotten if not given a chance on teams that needed what he brought under three different hall of fame coaches. If he had played at Atlanta or Denver I doubt if anyone would be talking about him today.

Tschiebwe's chances of starting an NBA game won't improve by another year at Kentucky. He needs to be playing against the big boys and showing what he can do. My comparison is that he is a rebounding machine and a defensive specialist.

The problem was the inconsistency in enforcement and the loads of money the people at the top of the NCAA made.

The money should go to the schools if you wanted to maintain amateurism. And the goal all along should never have been business growth, as crazy as that sounds to a few posters here. A status quo or even loss would be preferable.

Unfortunately that environment was hard to create/manage because coaching staffs and shoe companies were actively working to undermine the goal of amateurism.

pdub wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 1:21 pm

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 12:12 pm

Sparko wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 12:05 pm Jeez. Imagine all the dark money we never saw.

This is exactly it.

The NIL system makes college sports way better

Absolutely does not.
It makes it way worse.
If it was simply college students making money on their own, reaching out to businesses or getting paid for advertising on their social channels, ok, sure, but this is clearly we will pay you 800k if you play for Miami. If you dont, you do not get this deal.

2022 might be the time I remember last liking college ball. Helluva way to go out.

It’s weird (to me) that something like this would add to or subtract from someone’s enjoyment of the sport. Being affected by this is a choice.

He doesn’t like hockey.
But he likes sports. So weird.
Not liking hockey is a choice.

He doesn’t like pizza with honey on it.
But he likes pizza. So weird.
Not liking pizza with honey on it is a choice.

I will say this, if our coaching staff/sponsors were unable/unwilling to follow the old rules (which we don't need to speculate on for purposes of this convo), then I am glad there are now new rules in place that should be much easier for them to follow.

pdub wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 5:45 pm He doesn’t like pizza with honey on it.
But he likes pizza. So weird.
Not liking pizza with honey on it is a choice.

But this is like being mad at someone else getting honey on their pizza. As a matter of principle.

What?
No.
It’s like someone putting honey in your pizza and saying, get over it, it’s the same thing.

A lot of the stuff is the same. The dough, the cheese, the sauce. I mean, it’s pizza, it’s good. But now there’s honey all over it. I’ll just eat different pizza. Or something that’s meant to go with honey like French toast or something.

Maybe for this analogy there has always been honey on the pizza, it was a secret ingredient, maybe you even always liked the pizza, but now they are listing it as an ingredient on the menu, and since you don't like honey, now you don't like the pizza, even though the pizza is the exact same?

Which I realize, ignores the whole fact that honey was supposed to be against the rules.

I wonder if some people would feel differently about the honey if we were not caught up in a honey scandal?

Disagree with that change. I don’t think KSU players were getting 800k under the table.

Maybe there was always honey in some batches if the pizza in the dough as a secret ingredient. And, if the pizza chef got caught putting honey in the dough, he’d get reprimanded ( as it should be, no honey on pizza )
Now it’s slathered all over the top of the slice.

Well, KSU players aren't getting $800k. Miami players are.

Also, if honey on the pizza becomes the media narrative, you can't really avoid it.

I think we're also ignoring the critical point in all of this, and what makes it different from regular endorsement deals. When Coca-Cola signs an athlete to endorse their product, they aren't doing it to recruit players to Atalanta to play for the Hawks, or Braves, or Falcons. They're just doing it because they want that player to endorse their product.

I've never had a problem with a player making $5K for doing a local tv commmercial, hell, I don't have a problem if one of them signs with a national company and makes a lot more money. What I've wanted to avoid, is using the companies owned by boosters as facades for bidding wars to recruit players, and that's what this is. And this is precisely what the majority of NIL defenders on here said wouldn't happen.

Man, I'm so mad that the young black kids that I watch 40 times a year and sit on my ass discussing every day online are making money above board now. Just boils my blood. Might have to stop watching.

well, I guess this isn't the place for a civil intellectual conversation.

Enjoy your evenings.

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 8:43 pm Also, if honey on the pizza becomes the media narrative, you can't really avoid it.

I think we're also ignoring the critical point in all of this, and what makes it different from regular endorsement deals. When Coca-Cola signs an athlete to endorse their product, they aren't doing it to recruit players to Atalanta to play for the Hawks, or Braves, or Falcons. They're just doing it because they want that player to endorse their product.

I've never had a problem with a player making $5K for doing a local tv commmercial, hell, I don't have a problem if one of them signs with a national company and makes a lot more money. What I've wanted to avoid, is using the companies owned by boosters as facades for bidding wars to recruit players, and that's what this is. And this is precisely what the majority of NIL defenders on here said wouldn't happen.

I will admit, I didn't think this large of $$$ would be going for guys like Nijel Pack....but it leads me to believe that these types of boosters have been doing this type of influencing on a much larger scale than we realized for a long time. Now they just don't have to break laws to hide it.