COVID-19 - On the Ground

[Walrus]

Fish, you asked me "what am I arguing for"? The ideas of mandating a business to not require a vaccine passport or mandating the customer to to have a vaccine passport, both do not sit well with me. What I would say is the better option is to allow the most freedom of voluntary choice. This is why I am pro-choice on abortion -- those who are against abortion do not have to get one, and those who might consider it can have the option to decide for themselves.

So...now business owners should be allowed to serve only vaccinated people?

I never said I want that. My point is, I would suggest trying to offer as much freedom of choice is the better path. It's not a perfect solution, but I cannot think of a better one.

[Cascadia]

Freedom of choice only applies when you choose things lobster agrees with.

Pretty much. This also generally applies to all Republicans.

[jfish26]

Fish, you asked me "what am I arguing for"? The ideas of mandating a business to not require a vaccine passport or mandating the customer to to have a vaccine passport, both do not sit well with me. What I would say is the better option is to allow the most freedom of voluntary choice. This is why I am pro-choice on abortion -- those who are against abortion do not have to get one, and those who might consider it can have the option to decide for themselves.

but the businesses don’t get to choose?

And take it a step further - businesses being allowed to choose means that consumers are allowed to choose. And employees.

This is sort of bedrock conservatism here. And yet.

[jfish26]

Fish, you asked me "what am I arguing for"? The ideas of mandating a business to not require a vaccine passport or mandating the customer to to have a vaccine passport, both do not sit well with me. What I would say is the better option is to allow the most freedom of voluntary choice. This is why I am pro-choice on abortion -- those who are against abortion do not have to get one, and those who might consider it can have the option to decide for themselves.

So...now business owners should be allowed to serve only vaccinated people?

I never said I want that. My point is, I would suggest trying to offer as much freedom of choice is the better path. It's not a perfect solution, but I cannot think of a better one.

The better path than...the government choosing, for example?

[Walrus]

So...now business owners should be allowed to serve only vaccinated people?

I never said I want that. My point is, I would suggest trying to offer as much freedom of choice is the better path. It's not a perfect solution, but I cannot think of a better one.

The better path than...the government choosing, for example?

That's why I said the idea of mandating a business to not require a vaccine passport does not sit well with me. I just worry the other option could be much worse on a practical level.

[ousdahl]

how do you feel about the idea of insurance companies turning away customers?

[Deleted User 89]

I never said I want that. My point is, I would suggest trying to offer as much freedom of choice is the better path. It's not a perfect solution, but I cannot think of a better one.

The better path than...the government choosing, for example?

That's why I said the idea of mandating a business to not require a vaccine passport does not sit well with me. I just worry the other option could be much worse on a practical level.

worse for whom?

[Cascadia]

Lobby about to get the Gold Medal in Mental Gymnastics.

Somebody reach out to Guinness, we may have a World Record opportunity on our hands.

[jfish26]

I never said I want that. My point is, I would suggest trying to offer as much freedom of choice is the better path. It's not a perfect solution, but I cannot think of a better one.

The better path than...the government choosing, for example?

That's why I said the idea of mandating a business to not require a vaccine passport does not sit well with me. I just worry the other option could be much worse on a practical level.

Ok.

So the government should choose then, so long as it thinks whatever it's not choosing "could be much worse on a practical level."

You might go back through this whole thread with that in mind.

[Deleted User 89]

Lobby about to get the Gold Medal in Mental Gymnastics.

Somebody reach out to Guinness, we may have a World Record opportunity on our hands.

he could be the Simone Biles of Mental Gymnastics...this is hardly the first (or last, i’d imagine)

[CrimsonNBlue]

I never said I want that. My point is, I would suggest trying to offer as much freedom of choice is the better path. It's not a perfect solution, but I cannot think of a better one.

The better path than...the government choosing, for example?

That's why I said the idea of mandating a business to not require a vaccine passport does not sit well with me. I just worry the other option could be much worse on a practical level.

Where you are getting yourself into a pickle is that you are essentially arguing the American thing to do is let businesses choose, but if they choose something you don't agree with then they are unAmerican and letting them choose is unAmerican.

You may have softened your stance on that, but you have stated those things throughout this thread today. I honestly wonder if you are just confused, and who wouldn't be wading through the mess of information that the pandemic has caused. Confused is a lot better to be than being a jerk which you have been throughout this thread on previous days. I think where we can all find common ground is that there is no perfect answer.

[Walrus]

The better path than...the government choosing, for example?

That's why I said the idea of mandating a business to not require a vaccine passport does not sit well with me. I just worry the other option could be much worse on a practical level.

Ok.

So the government should choose then, so long as it thinks whatever it's not choosing "could be much worse on a practical level."

You might go back through this whole thread with that in mind.

I'm not claiming my answer is perfect, I just cannot think of a better option. That's why I think leaving it up to the states is probably the better option, despite the fact that mandating does not sit well with me on every level of the argument. If every private business required the vaccine passport, you would have a serious problem.

[Deleted User 89]

The better path than...the government choosing, for example?

That's why I said the idea of mandating a business to not require a vaccine passport does not sit well with me. I just worry the other option could be much worse on a practical level.

Where you are getting yourself into a pickle is that you are essentially arguing the American thing to do is let businesses choose, but if they choose something you don't agree with then they are unAmerican and letting them choose is unAmerican.

You may have softened your stance on that, but you have stated those things throughout this thread today. I honestly wonder if you are just confused, and who wouldn't be wading through the mess of information that the pandemic has caused. Confused is a lot better to be than being a jerk which you have been throughout this thread on previous days. I think where we can all find common ground is that there is no perfect answer.

kumbaya

[jfish26]

I understand that "leaving it up to the states" is also on your bingo card, so kudos there.

The whole point is that a state doing what Florida is doing is doing something intensely and flagrantly non-conservative.

So it's just very weird that it's the supposed conservatives that are doing it!

[Deleted User 89]

That's why I said the idea of mandating a business to not require a vaccine passport does not sit well with me. I just worry the other option could be much worse on a practical level.

Ok.

So the government should choose then, so long as it thinks whatever it's not choosing "could be much worse on a practical level."

You might go back through this whole thread with that in mind.

I'm not claiming my answer is perfect, I just cannot think of a better option. That's why I think leaving it up to the states is probably the better option, despite the fact that mandating does not sit well with me on every level of the argument. If every private business required the vaccine passport, you would have a serious problem.

what, exactly, would that problem be?

and for whom would it be problematic?

[Walrus]

The better path than...the government choosing, for example?

That's why I said the idea of mandating a business to not require a vaccine passport does not sit well with me. I just worry the other option could be much worse on a practical level.

Where you are getting yourself into a pickle is that you are essentially arguing the American thing to do is let businesses choose, but if they choose something you don't agree with then they are unAmerican and letting them choose is unAmerican.

You may have softened your stance on that, but you have stated those things throughout this thread today. I honestly wonder if you are just confused, and who wouldn't be wading through the mess of information that the pandemic has caused. Confused is a lot better to be than being a jerk which you have been throughout this thread on previous days. I think where we can all find common ground is that there is no perfect answer.

The American thing to do is allow as much voluntary choice as possible. That's not always going to go in a straight line.

I'm not sure what you mean by "being a jerk." I just share some facts and opinions of mine, I didn't insult anyone (except for Fish, questioning his ability in law -- I retract that -- sorry Fish). I don't come here to wave my dick -- I prefer logical discussions, but few actually want that. Fish raised a good question today, so I enjoyed exchanging our opinions. Wish there was more of that on here.

[japhy]

Speaking of insurance, some life insurance companies will not cover people now who have taken the vax. They don't want the risk of the experimental things as their liability.

May I ask for a link? For the sake of honest discussion, please?

In case you want to skip the disinformation links the rubes are spreading on Parler, here's what the life insurance industry has said in response to all of the antivaxer RUbeMORS about life insurance.

https://www.acli.com/Posting/NR21-012

https://www.clhia.ca/web/CLHIA_LP4W_LND ... enDocument

But you will probably have to buy life insurance and get the covid vaccine and die to know for sure.

[jfish26]

Ok.

So the government should choose then, so long as it thinks whatever it's not choosing "could be much worse on a practical level."

You might go back through this whole thread with that in mind.

I'm not claiming my answer is perfect, I just cannot think of a better option. That's why I think leaving it up to the states is probably the better option, despite the fact that mandating does not sit well with me on every level of the argument. If every private business required the vaccine passport, you would have a serious problem.

what, exactly, would that problem be?

and for whom would it be problematic?

You have to understand, this whole "a private business is being mean to me personally and I don't like it and the government should do something about it" thing is not so familiar to some people.

[Walrus]

I understand that "leaving it up to the states" is also on your bingo card, so kudos there.

The whole point is that a state doing what Florida is doing is doing something intensely and flagrantly non-conservative.

So it's just very weird that it's the supposed conservatives that are doing it!

Fair enough -- maybe it is a contradiction. But we have to live in the practical world, and they are giving their customers more choice, which is far more people than the business owners. It's in the better interest for the majority to have a choice in the vaccine rather than let the business owners decide it.

[jfish26]

I understand that "leaving it up to the states" is also on your bingo card, so kudos there.

The whole point is that a state doing what Florida is doing is doing something intensely and flagrantly non-conservative.

So it's just very weird that it's the supposed conservatives that are doing it!

Fair enough -- maybe it is a contradiction. But we have to live in the practical world, and they are giving their customers more choice, which is far more people than the business owners. It's in the better interest for the majority to have a choice in the vaccine rather than let the business owners decide it.

Oooh now do voting rights.