Kansas Crimson

jfish26 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:53 pm

Walrus wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:46 pm Fish, you asked me "what am I arguing for"? The ideas of mandating a business to not require a vaccine passport or mandating the customer to to have a vaccine passport, both do not sit well with me. What I would say is the better option is to allow the most freedom of voluntary choice. This is why I am pro-choice on abortion -- those who are against abortion do not have to get one, and those who might consider it can have the option to decide for themselves.

So...now business owners should be allowed to serve only vaccinated people?

ousdahl wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:53 pm Freedom of choice only applies when you choose things lobster agrees with.

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:54 pm

Walrus wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:46 pm Fish, you asked me "what am I arguing for"? The ideas of mandating a business to not require a vaccine passport or mandating the customer to to have a vaccine passport, both do not sit well with me. What I would say is the better option is to allow the most freedom of voluntary choice. This is why I am pro-choice on abortion -- those who are against abortion do not have to get one, and those who might consider it can have the option to decide for themselves.

but the businesses don’t get to choose?

Walrus wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:55 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:53 pm

Walrus wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:46 pm Fish, you asked me "what am I arguing for"? The ideas of mandating a business to not require a vaccine passport or mandating the customer to to have a vaccine passport, both do not sit well with me. What I would say is the better option is to allow the most freedom of voluntary choice. This is why I am pro-choice on abortion -- those who are against abortion do not have to get one, and those who might consider it can have the option to decide for themselves.

So...now business owners should be allowed to serve only vaccinated people?

I never said I want that. My point is, I would suggest trying to offer as much freedom of choice is the better path. It's not a perfect solution, but I cannot think of a better one.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:57 pm

Walrus wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:55 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:53 pm

So...now business owners should be allowed to serve only vaccinated people?

I never said I want that. My point is, I would suggest trying to offer as much freedom of choice is the better path. It's not a perfect solution, but I cannot think of a better one.

The better path than...the government choosing, for example?

Walrus wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:59 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:57 pm

Walrus wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:55 pm

I never said I want that. My point is, I would suggest trying to offer as much freedom of choice is the better path. It's not a perfect solution, but I cannot think of a better one.

The better path than...the government choosing, for example?

That's why I said the idea of mandating a business to not require a vaccine passport does not sit well with me. I just worry the other option could be much worse on a practical level.

Walrus wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:59 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:57 pm

Walrus wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:55 pm

I never said I want that. My point is, I would suggest trying to offer as much freedom of choice is the better path. It's not a perfect solution, but I cannot think of a better one.

The better path than...the government choosing, for example?

That's why I said the idea of mandating a business to not require a vaccine passport does not sit well with me. I just worry the other option could be much worse on a practical level.

Cascadia wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:02 pm Lobby about to get the Gold Medal in Mental Gymnastics.

Somebody reach out to Guinness, we may have a World Record opportunity on our hands.

Walrus wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:59 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:57 pm

Walrus wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:55 pm

I never said I want that. My point is, I would suggest trying to offer as much freedom of choice is the better path. It's not a perfect solution, but I cannot think of a better one.

The better path than...the government choosing, for example?

That's why I said the idea of mandating a business to not require a vaccine passport does not sit well with me. I just worry the other option could be much worse on a practical level.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:04 pm

Walrus wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:59 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:57 pm

The better path than...the government choosing, for example?

That's why I said the idea of mandating a business to not require a vaccine passport does not sit well with me. I just worry the other option could be much worse on a practical level.

Ok.

So the government should choose then, so long as it thinks whatever it's not choosing "could be much worse on a practical level."

You might go back through this whole thread with that in mind.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:08 pm

Walrus wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:59 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:57 pm

The better path than...the government choosing, for example?

That's why I said the idea of mandating a business to not require a vaccine passport does not sit well with me. I just worry the other option could be much worse on a practical level.

Where you are getting yourself into a pickle is that you are essentially arguing the American thing to do is let businesses choose, but if they choose something you don't agree with then they are unAmerican and letting them choose is unAmerican.

You may have softened your stance on that, but you have stated those things throughout this thread today. I honestly wonder if you are just confused, and who wouldn't be wading through the mess of information that the pandemic has caused. Confused is a lot better to be than being a jerk which you have been throughout this thread on previous days. I think where we can all find common ground is that there is no perfect answer.

Walrus wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:10 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:04 pm

Walrus wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:59 pm

That's why I said the idea of mandating a business to not require a vaccine passport does not sit well with me. I just worry the other option could be much worse on a practical level.

Ok.

So the government should choose then, so long as it thinks whatever it's not choosing "could be much worse on a practical level."

You might go back through this whole thread with that in mind.

I'm not claiming my answer is perfect, I just cannot think of a better option. That's why I think leaving it up to the states is probably the better option, despite the fact that mandating does not sit well with me on every level of the argument. If every private business required the vaccine passport, you would have a serious problem.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:08 pm

Walrus wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:59 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:57 pm

The better path than...the government choosing, for example?

That's why I said the idea of mandating a business to not require a vaccine passport does not sit well with me. I just worry the other option could be much worse on a practical level.

Where you are getting yourself into a pickle is that you are essentially arguing the American thing to do is let businesses choose, but if they choose something you don't agree with then they are unAmerican and letting them choose is unAmerican.

You may have softened your stance on that, but you have stated those things throughout this thread today. I honestly wonder if you are just confused, and who wouldn't be wading through the mess of information that the pandemic has caused. Confused is a lot better to be than being a jerk which you have been throughout this thread on previous days. I think where we can all find common ground is that there is no perfect answer.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:41 pm

Walrus wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:22 pm
Speaking of insurance, some life insurance companies will not cover people now who have taken the vax. They don't want the risk of the experimental things as their liability.

May I ask for a link? For the sake of honest discussion, please?

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:13 pm

Walrus wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:10 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:04 pm

Ok.

So the government should choose then, so long as it thinks whatever it's not choosing "could be much worse on a practical level."

You might go back through this whole thread with that in mind.

I'm not claiming my answer is perfect, I just cannot think of a better option. That's why I think leaving it up to the states is probably the better option, despite the fact that mandating does not sit well with me on every level of the argument. If every private business required the vaccine passport, you would have a serious problem.

what, exactly, would that problem be?

and for whom would it be problematic?

jfish26 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:12 pm I understand that "leaving it up to the states" is also on your bingo card, so kudos there.

The whole point is that a state doing what Florida is doing is doing something intensely and flagrantly non-conservative.

So it's just very weird that it's the supposed conservatives that are doing it!

Walrus wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:17 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:12 pm I understand that "leaving it up to the states" is also on your bingo card, so kudos there.

The whole point is that a state doing what Florida is doing is doing something intensely and flagrantly non-conservative.

So it's just very weird that it's the supposed conservatives that are doing it!

Fair enough -- maybe it is a contradiction. But we have to live in the practical world, and they are giving their customers more choice, which is far more people than the business owners. It's in the better interest for the majority to have a choice in the vaccine rather than let the business owners decide it.