Kansas Crimson

Honestly. I just dont think they fit Self's strengths. He is a fantastic teacher of the game over multiple seasons. He has a tremendous amount of knowledge and a fantastic ability to build on a players abilities season over season. His juniors and seniors are almost always better than everyone else's juniors and seniors.

I just dont think Self is as good getting teams to work at their full potential with OAD players. Maybe it works other places but he just doesn't seem to be as good at it.

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:46 am We've won 14 of 15 conference titles, a national championship, and 3 final 4s using Bill Selfs method of mixing OAD elite talent with quality experienced players.

I think we should probably stick to what's working instead of only recruiting players ranked outside the top 75 because Carson Edwards and Frank Mason ended up being really good.

Just a reminder that Self had exactly ZERO minutes played by OAD players combined in those three Final Four appearances.

Bruce ball rules!!!

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:19 am

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:46 am We've won 14 of 15 conference titles, a national championship, and 3 final 4s using Bill Selfs method of mixing OAD elite talent with quality experienced players.

I think we should probably stick to what's working instead of only recruiting players ranked outside the top 75 because Carson Edwards and Frank Mason ended up being really good.

Just a reminder that Self had exactly ZERO minutes played by OAD players combined in those three Final Four appearances.

Malik Newman was supposed to be a OAD.

Brandon Rush was supposed to be a OAD.

2012 is what it is. You're overlooking a lot of their shortcomings because they made a final 4....that's not 1 of the best teams we have had.

I don't want a team full of OADs, but if you think players like Kelly Oubre Andrew Wiggins and Josh Jackson give you less of a chance to win in march then you're a looney tune.

Duke didn't lose yesterday because they were full of OADs. They lost a close game. Missed free throws that could have changed the outcome.

And 24 hours ago the 2 teams who looked like they had the best chance to win it all were Duke and UK....both full of OADs. So I'm not going to let 1 day of games lead me to believe we should reinvent our recruiting methods.

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:30 am Duke didn't lose yesterday because they were full of OADs. They lost a close game. Missed free throws that could have changed the outcome.

And 24 hours ago the 2 teams who looked like they had the best chance to win it all were Duke and UK....both full of OADs. So I'm not going to let 1 day of games lead me to believe we should reinvent our recruiting methods.

Yes that is true, but also experienced teams matter a ton this time of year.

There is a good video that I saw this morning. Before Michigan State's last inbounds when Winston dribbled out the clock, the guy inbounding just popped his eyes big at Winston and looked to his left basically telling Winston to go that way. That doesn't happen on a team with OAD, but instead with a team that has been together for 3 years.

It also gets skewed. Experience absolutely matters a ton in march and april....but most teams are experienced. There are only maybe 10 teams that regularly deal with multiple OADs per year 2 of them are Duke and UK..both played yesterday. Both have multiple final 4s playing OADs.

So saying "there's no OADs in this final 4" really proves nothing. There easily could have been 2 teams filled with OADs in the final 4 this year....and of the very few teams who roll out OAD type players, 2 of them played for a chance to go to the final 4 yesterday.

Realistically there are maybe what 4 OAD type programs that are regularly getting these guys....Duke UK UNC and KU. The track record for those 4 teams in march and April is pretty successful.

We have very few OADs anyway.

How shall we determine who is a OAD before recruiting them? Should McDAA serve as a proxy? Should we NOT have recruited Dotson? Would we have been better this year without him? Or is there a different standard we should use?

Also of note, if Grayson Allen's shot goes in against Kansas last year, this talk is all moot. That Duke team had 4 OADs. One inch either way and that shot goes in, this talk subsides quite a bit.

NewtonHawk11 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:22 pm Also of note, if Grayson Allen's shot goes in against Kansas last year, this talk is all moot. That Duke team had 4 OADs. One inch either way and that shot goes in, this talk subsides quite a bit.

Or if RJ hits his free throws yesterday.

Or if Auburn gets beat in round 1 which was a real possibility. Then we would have UNC or UK in there as well...with multiple OADs.

The line between elite 8 and final 4 is razor thin. We know this better than anyone. We easily could have made the final 4 in Josh Jackson's year. Or Kelly Oubre's year.

you guys remember our last national championship appearance, when our team of seasoned juniors and seniors bested UK’s one and ones?

oh wait..

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:26 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:19 am

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:46 am We've won 14 of 15 conference titles, a national championship, and 3 final 4s using Bill Selfs method of mixing OAD elite talent with quality experienced players.

I think we should probably stick to what's working instead of only recruiting players ranked outside the top 75 because Carson Edwards and Frank Mason ended up being really good.

Just a reminder that Self had exactly ZERO minutes played by OAD players combined in those three Final Four appearances.

Malik Newman was supposed to be a OAD.

Brandon Rush was supposed to be a OAD.

2012 is what it is. You're overlooking a lot of their shortcomings because they made a final 4....that's not 1 of the best teams we have had.

I DGAF who was "supposed" to be. Bottom line, it was both of those players third years playing college basketball before they were able to help get a team to the Final Four. If anything, you're just helping to make my point for me by pointing that out.

NewtonHawk11 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:22 pm Also of note, if Grayson Allen's shot goes in against Kansas last year, this talk is all moot. That Duke team had 4 OADs. One inch either way and that shot goes in, this talk subsides quite a bit.

"If". "Supposed to be". "Could have been". DIDNT.

If three more buckets go down, Kansas has three more national title banners. "If" doesn't count for shit.

Oh this argument again?

And after a season where our season was derailed by a fragile bodied junior and fragile minded senior?

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:03 pm Oh this argument again?

And after a season where our season was derailed by a fragile bodied junior and fragile minded senior?

LeaDErshiP!

DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:12 pm

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:03 pm Oh this argument again?

And after a season where our season was derailed by a fragile bodied junior and fragile minded senior?

LeaDErshiP!

Right, it’s old timer fan stuff.

We’re in an age of CBB where if you’re a senior at KU, UK, Duke, etc, there’s a pretty good chance that you should be recruited over.

Self was right to recruit both Jackson and Langford because Selden and Vick were behind schedule.

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:00 pm

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:26 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:19 am
Just a reminder that Self had exactly ZERO minutes played by OAD players combined in those three Final Four appearances.

Malik Newman was supposed to be a OAD.

Brandon Rush was supposed to be a OAD.

2012 is what it is. You're overlooking a lot of their shortcomings because they made a final 4....that's not 1 of the best teams we have had.

I DGAF who was "supposed" to be. Bottom line, it was both of those players third years playing college basketball before they were able to help get a team to the Final Four. If anything, you're just helping to make my point for me by pointing that out.

I think you've lost track of what your point was. Which is a good thing because it's a stupid point to begin with.

You seem to think every player who stays 3 or 4 years turns into Frank Mason when he's in the 1%. More end up like Nadir Tharpe.

I know it's not exclusive to our fan base, but my god our fan base is hilarious.

When we've got OADs on the bench we complain about Jamari playing.

When we don't have OADs we complain that we should only be recruiting players like jamari and brady and reed and Landen Lucas.....those same players that most of our fan base complains NON STOP about while they're actually playing at KU.

So weird.

I'd take it a lot more seriously if people complained about our coaching staff composition (can't tell me that snacks is as good of an assistant as Jank or Dooley or Danny were).

We didn't struggle because of OADs in a single year other than Wiggins and Embiids year. Subsequently the 2 best OADs we've had here...we struggled this year because of mistakes we made managing our roster the last 2 or 3 years with transfers. We didn't need Moore here. We didn't need KJ here. We didn't need Sam here. That's years worth of scholarships wasted.

Blame Self not OADs. He got us in this mess.

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:30 am Duke didn't lose yesterday because they were full of OADs. They lost a close game. Missed free throws that could have changed the outcome.

And 24 hours ago the 2 teams who looked like they had the best chance to win it all were Duke and UK....both full of OADs. So I'm not going to let 1 day of games lead me to believe we should reinvent our recruiting methods.

I am not basing my opinion on one day of games. I am basing it on 14 years of Kansas tournament results.