Kansas Crimson

It isn’t always about the stat line.

Can you help me me see the evidence of a Team getting better when Russ joined them?

Where is that meme of Russ (Grim Reaper) Westbrook going from locker room to locker room?

Overlander wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 11:16 am It isn’t always about the stat line.

Can you help me me see the evidence of a Team getting better when Russ joined them?

OKC?

Drafted isn’t the same as joined, IMO.

I actually like watching Westbrook play, and his conditioning is top shelf.

He just never seems to make a team BETTER when he comes aboard.

He's a high energy, low efficiency player.

DeletedUser wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 12:24 pm He's a high energy, low efficiency player.

This

Overlander wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 12:31 pm

DeletedUser wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 12:24 pm He's a high energy, low efficiency player.

This

No. NOT this. "low" efficiency? Come on!
What next? You guys are going to tell me Joe Biden is a young guy and Donald Trump is an honest man?
I'm confident 99% of NBA players who have played with and against him would tell you guys that you are clueless.
Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if there was at least one season the guy led the league in PER and probably several seasons he was top 5.
I know the guy led the league in scoring more than once.
I know the guy led the league in assists more than once.
I know the guy was top 10 in rebounds in the league more than once.
I know the guy averaged a triple double at least 3 seasons.
I know the guy was a league MVP.
My guess is he has been first team All NBA more than once and probably 2nd and 3rd team a bunch of times.
Guy played solid defense most of his career.
Sorry guys. All of that is NOT "low efficiency".

He's a hall of famer. Accomplished historic indivudal success.

But he's low efficiency. He's a bad outside shooter. He tends to be careless with the ball.

I am as big of a Russ Westbrook fan as there is on this board. I think he's a top 75-100 player of all time.

I do think his energy and competitiveness comes with a downside.

DeletedUser wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 6:09 am He's a hall of famer. Accomplished historic indivudal success.

But he's low efficiency. He's a bad outside shooter. He tends to be careless with the ball.

I am as big of a Russ Westbrook fan as there is on this board. I think he's a top 75-100 player of all time.

I do think his energy and competitiveness comes with a downside.

Yes, he is a hall of famer.
Yes, he has accomplished historic individual success. I know you didn't say it but I am going to say, I don't like when people say he hasn't achieved team success - or he isn't a team player. I disagree.
No, career wise he has NOT been "low efficiency".
Yes, career wise he has been a bad outside shooter. Although, 3 seasons he shot over 33%.
Yes, career wise he has tended to be careless with the ball. He's in good company. So is/has Giannis, Jokic, KD, LeBron, Steph, and Harden. All past league MVPs and future hall of famers.

Still waiting for that list of teams Westbrook elevated with his arrival….

Overlander wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 8:53 pm Still waiting for that list of teams Westbrook elevated with his arrival….

Sorry, I missed/didn't see your post yesterday.

There is a difference between not elevating a team with his arrival and "destroying EVERY team" he played on.

It would take some in-depth research for me to see what the teams added and what the teams lost that he went to.
I don't know what teams he himself "elevated" or didn't "elevate".
Maybe I am being generous but....
I would guess/say he didn't hurt OKC and probably if not definitely "elevated" them.
I would guess/say he didn't hurt Houston and possibly "elevated" them.
I would guess/say he didn't hurt Washington and probably if not definitely "elevated" them.
I would guess/say he didn't hurt the Lakers and possibly "elevated" them.
I would guess/say he didn't hurt the Clippers and possibly "elevated" them.

Russ is what you call a double edged sword

It's tough to call him low efficiency tho, because he is so active, he generates points, assists, rebounds, steals, stops. Etc

He is mistake prone on offense tho

RainbowsandUnicorns wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:37 pm

Overlander wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 8:53 pm Still waiting for that list of teams Westbrook elevated with his arrival….

Sorry, I missed/didn't see your post yesterday.

There is a difference between not elevating a team with his arrival and "destroying EVERY team" he played on.

It would take some in-depth research for me to see what the teams added and what the teams lost that he went to.
I don't know what teams he himself "elevated" or didn't "elevate".
Maybe I am being generous but....
I would guess/say he didn't hurt OKC and probably if not definitely "elevated" them.
I would guess/say he didn't hurt Houston and possibly "elevated" them.
I would guess/say he didn't hurt Washington and probably if not definitely "elevated" them.
I would guess/say he didn't hurt the Lakers and possibly "elevated" them.
I would guess/say he didn't hurt the Clippers and possibly "elevated" them.

Thanks for “clearing that up”.

randylahey wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 10:01 pm Russ is what you call a double edged sword

It's tough to call him low efficiency tho, because he is so active, he generates points, assists, rebounds, steals, stops. Etc

He is mistake prone on offense tho

Yes. I should have said he is a low efficiency scoring option. His efficiency is helped by the fact he is a great rebounder for his position and a great facilitator. He just sort of sucks at shooting.

DeletedUser wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 10:29 pm

randylahey wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 10:01 pm Russ is what you call a double edged sword

It's tough to call him low efficiency tho, because he is so active, he generates points, assists, rebounds, steals, stops. Etc

He is mistake prone on offense tho

Yes. I should have said he is a low efficiency scoring option. His efficiency is helped by the fact he is a great rebounder for his position and a great facilitator. He just sort of sucks at shooting.

I don't think he's a good outsider shooter by any means, but is that primarily what he has been paid to do? No.
Just for some reference sake....
Supposedly the average NBA FG% for PGs has been 43.4%, Russ has averaged 43.8% for his career.
Last season on the Clippers, 45.4%. Better than Steph Curry, Tyrese Maxey, Cade Cunningham, Tyler Herro, Trae Young, Damian Lillard, etc.
Yes, Russ' 3pt shooting was terrible at 27.3% and the other guys were better 3pt shooters.
Kind of crazy to me that the 21 games he played for the Clippers the season before, his 3pt shooting % was 35.6%. Which was better than Luka averaged for the season.

You need to be respectable from the 3 today to be a good PG. He is a bad to awful 3 point shooter.

He also has been well known to shoot his teams out of games.

Finally he stat chases ( or used to ) and turns the ball over ( or used to ) a LOT.

pdub wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2024 8:02 am You need to be respectable from the 3 today to be a good PG. He is a bad to awful 3 point shooter.

He also has been well known to shoot his teams out of games.

Finally he stat chases ( or used to ) and turns the ball over ( or used to ) a LOT.

Yes, for much of his career he was an awful 3 point shooter.
Meanwhile, there are "good" PG who are not "respectable" 3 point shooters.

Yes, he has shot his teams out of games.
Meanwhile, he has also taken over games without shooting 3s and has led his teams to Ws.

No, I feel he has not been a "stat chaser" but to me that's an opinion based argument so I'll respect your opinion.
You're a stat guy. Does PER mean anything? if so, I'm confident he has had a very good PER much of his career.

Yes, he turned the ball over a LOT in his career. As I mentioned before, you know else turns the ball over A LOT? The last 7 NBA MVPs (other than Westbrook).

Here is something to ponder. Many people consider Isiah Thomas to have been a top 10 if not top 5 all time NBA PG.
I'm not saying Russ is the better career PG but if we are discussing shooting, Westbrook has a better career 3pt%.
If we are discussing turnovers, I don't know how many possessions each guy had but Thomas averaged 3.8 turnovers per game, Russ has averaged 3.9. Can't be any closer to being even without being even.
Yes, Thomas averaged more assists, despite Westbrook having 10 apg multiple times and him leading the league in assists multiple times

I think he’s a good player that fills the stat sheet ( his taller teammates have mentioned how they’d back off at the free throw line so he could get his extra 1-2 rebounds a game ).

I don’t think he’s good for your team as he has to have the ball on his hands a ton and doesn’t shoot well. He’s not a good defender either ( not bad just not good - think Marcus Peters light - all or nothing kinda guy ).

Again no doubt a top 25 guy each year as a player but someone I would not want if I was running a team. Not at all.

Similar now to Trae Young.

pdub wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2024 10:18 am I think he’s a good player that fills the stat sheet ( his taller teammates have mentioned how they’d back off at the free throw line so he could get his extra 1-2 rebounds a game ).

I don’t think he’s good for your team as he has to have the ball on his hands a ton and doesn’t shoot well. He’s not a good defender either ( not bad just not good - think Marcus Peters light - all or nothing kinda guy ).

Again no doubt a top 25 guy each year as a player but someone I would not want if I was running a team. Not at all.

Similar now to Trae Young.

I feel - all fair assessments.
My OPINION.... You and others on here tend to undervalue/minimize him to a small degree. I tend to overvalue/maximize him to a small degree.
Nice when we can discuss/debate him respectfully.

Moving on.......
Everyone of his teammates has played in a conference final. He has not. Meaning he has never sniffed a NBA championship. If Joel never wins a championship, I hope he saviors this summer and brings himself home a Gold medal.

https://twitter.com/usabasketball/statu ... 1166949562

Devonte' on the move.

https://www.on3.com/pro/news/report-spu ... -z51TSKWgA