Kansas Crimson

I'm not sure he's trying to rag on Zion for taking the money.
I'm not really either.
I'd wish there was another venue for guys who want to make money to go make it.

I think with that statement he's saying the loss of integrity lies within the colleges or the collegiate athletic system which includes handlers, recruiters negotiating cash, corporations and boosters providing that cash -- his article isn't shitting on Zion, it's shitting on Kansas. A system that used to be more about academics and the love of sport is now more about earning money.

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2023 10:51 am I'm not sure he's trying to rag on Zion for taking the money.
I'm not really either.
I'd wish there was another venue for guys who want to make money to go make it.

I think with that statement he's saying the loss of integrity lies within the colleges or the collegiate athletic system which includes handlers, recruiters negotiating cash, corporations and boosters providing that cash -- his article isn't shitting on Zion, it's shitting on Kansas. A system that used to be more about academics and the love of sport is now more about earning money.

Ok.

This was the paragraph (which is sandwiched by perspective that is favorable to Merl Code (going so far as to characterize him as "collateral damage, another disposable Black person whose job was to get Black players by any means necessary")):

That’s what makes the University of Kansas continuing to deny the obvious, while awaiting its preseason No. 1 ranking, so morally bankrupt. In a way, the Kansas case was integrity’s last stand. Colleges no longer need to paper-bag cash or funnel money through AAU teams. Thanks to “name, image and likeness” rules, Adidas can pay Kansas star Hunter Dickinson in broad daylight, and Girod doesn’t have to tie himself into a pretzel explaining what happened. Kansas also was the last IARP case – the NCAA is disbanding that particular puppet show. What some of us will remember most from that era are the wiretap transcripts and ruined lives – like Code’s.

This is really poor writing.

But as I read it, the point seems to be that the NCAA's attempt to hold KU (and, more specifically, Bill) accountable was "integrity's last stand." As I read it, "paper-bag cash" and the rest of the black market economy were things that had already chipped away at the sport's "integrity." In other words, as I read it, this guy is in fact saying that players getting paid eroded the sport's "integrity," and doing it out in the open means "integrity" is gone - having lost its "last stand."

I do not wish to open the pandora's box of the...very weird way the guy wants to address race in his story, so we'll set that aside.

However - and I'm guessing you and I agree on this - to the extent the sport has an "integrity" problem, it comes from the powers that be wanting to have their cake and eat it, too; you can have college sports the way YOU see them, or the way I see them, but not both. The center could not hold...and it didn't.

Original statement of mine is in line with this of what you said, "wanting to have their cake and eat it, too":

"If you're having issues with the NCAA being the enforcers while also swimming in cash, then yea, I definitely can see 'oh the irony' there."

The act of preventing colleges and those associated with those colleges in paying highest price on a player, i.e. keeping money out of college basketball, is an honorable effort in his opinion and mine.

He is saying that act/ability is gone.
Now you take just one more step and connect with who was trying to use that ability and what they are all about then you can say, 'oh yea, well, these guys are full of shit'.

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2023 12:30 pm Original statement of mine is in line with this of what you said, "wanting to have their cake and eat it, too":

"If you're having issues with the NCAA being the enforcers while also swimming in cash, then yea, I definitely can see 'oh the irony' there."

The act of preventing colleges and those associated with those colleges in paying highest price on a player, i.e. keeping money out of college basketball, is an honorable effort in his opinion and mine.

He is saying that act/ability is gone.
Now you take just one more step and connect with who was trying to use that ability and what they are all about then you can say, 'oh yea, well, these guys are full of shit'.

Right.

I feel like it's very very disingenuous that the writer wants to make victims out of guys like Merl Code...when the very jobs of guys like Merl Code only existed at all because the people in power (yes, VERY much including Bill and KU) considered the juice (their end, being the "clean" money) as being worth the squeeze (the black market for players).

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2023 10:41 am
It's one thing to have an opinion... And so I disagree with you, respectfully and in recognition that you hold your opinions genuinely and in good faith.

I do NOT think it's in good faith for someone ... to say there is something unprincipled about people getting paid for the value they bring. To suggest that ... people ... are somehow deficient in character for seeking payment for their value...is simply on ...[a] level that does NOT AT ALL deserve respect.

this is a great post, Fish. really great. and not because i agree with you - i posted on here a number of times that i personally lean towards team pdub on the subject of this particular debate. but i appreciate your comment because it is thoughtful and intelligent and cordial.

i keep getting stuck on the tenuousness of a financial system built on selfishness being reliant on a society construct which requires goodwill and favorable public images in order to maximize profits. we used to be marketed an entertainment product that was accompanied by societal values of education and opportunity, but now that that has openly gone by the way side, we're lamenting that, in the end, everybody was selfish all along and the PR was a flimsy facade, as if we should be surprised.


and all i ever wanted to sell was widgets...

that immediately brought to mind…

"As soon as Duke was made aware of any allegation that might have affected Zion Williamson’s eligibility, we conducted a thorough and objective investigation which was directed by individuals outside the athletics department,” the statement from the university reads. “We found no evidence to support any allegation. Zion thrived as both a student and an athlete at Duke, and always conducted himself with integrity and purpose.”

riiiight…

KUTradition wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2023 3:20 pm that immediately brought to mind…

"As soon as Duke was made aware of any allegation that might have affected Zion Williamson’s eligibility, we conducted a thorough and objective investigation which was directed by individuals outside the athletics department,” the statement from the university reads. “We found no evidence to support any allegation. Zion thrived as both a student and an athlete at Duke, and always conducted himself with integrity and purpose.”

riiiight…

It's not lost on me that the private schools can do things like this in a way the public schools cannot. I am not sure Duke would be quite so conclusory and flip here were it subject to FOIA (and state equivalents).

KUTradition wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2023 3:20 pm that immediately brought to mind…

"As soon as Duke was made aware of any allegation that might have affected Zion Williamson’s eligibility, we conducted a thorough and objective investigation which was directed by individuals outside the athletics department,” the statement from the university reads. “We found no evidence to support any allegation. Zion thrived as both a student and an athlete at Duke, and always conducted himself with integrity and purpose.”

riiiight…

Which immediately brings to mind:

“It was further my understanding that to secure the verbal commitment from Lee Anderson (who was acting on behalf of Zion Williamson and the Zion Williamson family) to have Zion sign with ‘MMG,’ Lee Anderson had demanded, and Duric paid, some $400,000 to Lee Anderson and Chubby Wells,” Kreiss wrote.

“I understood that the $400,000 to Lee Anderson and Chubby Wells was paid in the manner directed by Lee Anderson. My understanding is that Lee Anderson requested the money be wired to a bank in South Carolina, shortly after Zion started school at Duke (and that some may have been in October of 2018).”

https://newrepublic.com/article/176393/ ... ust%20laws.

boo sheet

The NCAA will fold, or at the very least KU won't be apart of it, in 5-10 years so we'll just put it back up when that happens.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/s ... ers-portal

"Make no mistake that a good quarterback in the portal costs, you know, a million to $1.5 million to $2 million right now, just so we're all on the same page," Rhule said Wednesday while discussing the state of the program with reporters. "Let's make sure we all understand what's happening. There are some teams that have $6 [million] or $7 million players playing for them."

Yay.

blech

I wonder if there would be outrage if the public knew how much all the athletes made.

I mean student-athletes.

Self is very wise and understands that it would peeve off a good portion of his fanbase.
Hunter could be getting 3 million a year, we'd never know.

“we’d never know” is pretty much what pre-NIL was.

pdub wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 10:53 am Self is very wise and understands that it would peeve off a good portion of his fanbase.
Hunter could be getting 3 million a year, we'd never know.

I don’t think it’s a self policy. I think it’s privacy as they are technically students. Lololol. Students.

Back2Lawrence wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 10:52 am I wonder if there would be outrage if the public knew how much all the athletes made.

I mean student-athletes.

Are you OK with your salary being made public? They aren't being paid with taxpayer money through the state or university. It's none of our business.

pdub wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 11:32 am The NCAA will fold, or at the very least KU won't be apart of it, in 5-10 years so we'll just put it back up when that happens.

THIS.