Since no one else has chimed in, I think Vivek came after her because she supports the US defense of Ukraine, not specifically US troops joining the fight*.
*Because, as anyone with an awareness of history knows, if we let revanchist, imperial Putin invade Ukraine without opposition, he'll almost certainly move into the Baltics, i.e., Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, and others, like Moldova and Georgia, under the guise of "protecting Russians" living there. And, because Latvia, Estonia, and Lithuania are members of NATO, we are duty-bound to support them, and the likelihood of American boots on the ground is almost a certainty. Which is only one of the many reasons why supporting Ukraine as we are now is a relative bargain, both in terms of money, and American lives.
“The Electoral College is DEI for rural white folks.”
Derek Cressman
Since no one else has chimed in, I think Vivek came after her because she supports the US defense of Ukraine, not specifically US troops joining the fight*.
*Because, as anyone with an awareness of history knows, if we let revanchist, imperial Putin invade Ukraine without opposition, he'll almost certainly move into the Baltics, i.e., Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, and others, like Moldova and Georgia, under the guise of "protecting Russians" living there. And, because Latvia, Estonia, and Lithuania are members of NATO, we are duty-bound to defend them, and the likelihood of American boots on the ground is almost a certainty. Which is only one of the reasons why supporting Ukraine as we are now is relatively an absolute, stone-cold bargain, not only in terms of money, but American lives, too.
And that's not to mention the signal it would send to Chinese President Xi Jinping if we didn't defend Ukraine, about how we'd respond, or not, to China invading Taiwan, and Iran increasing its use of proxies to intimidate Israel, and other countries in the Middle East.
Last edited by Shirley on Thu Dec 07, 2023 10:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
“The Electoral College is DEI for rural white folks.”
Derek Cressman
saying nothing of vgr, i don’t think it’s to much to expect that haley could name those provinces/oblasts…at least most of them
Have we fallen into a mesmerized state that makes us accept as inevitable that which is inferior or detrimental, as though having lost the will or the vision to demand that which is good?
KUTradition wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 10:17 am
saying nothing of vgr, i don’t think it’s to much to expect that haley could name those provinces/oblasts…at least most of them
It’s also representative of a core problem that many iconoclast tech moguls have: a misguided perception that the CEO even should be omniscient and omnipotent.
I wanted to let you know how grateful I am for your support. Generosity from grassroots supporters like you is the reason I am able to fund my campaign and fight for America's future.
Now, I want to take a few minutes to talk with you about the journey I have been on. Once you've finished reading this, please consider making a contribution of any amount to help me fund my campaign so I can get my message out to every voter!
Ever since I launched my campaign for President, I have read and heard my life described in every way imaginable. Today, I want you to hear my story in MY words.
I am the daughter of legal immigrants from a small, rural town in South Carolina. We were the only Indian family in our town. My father wore a turban as he still does to this day, and my mother wore a sari. No one knew who we were, what we were, or why we were there. But with each passing day, the community began to look beyond our skin color. They began to see my family for who we are: hard working people who held the same values they cherished. Gradually, those initial stares transformed into smiles and we shifted from being excluded to embraced. Not every day was perfect. But every day was better than the one before it.
After graduating from Clemson and working in the corporate world, I decided to take a job working for my family's business that my mother started in our living room when I was a child. I was frustrated when I saw how hard it was to make a dollar and how easy it was for government to take it away. When I voiced these frustrations to my mom, she gave me some wise advice which was: "Don't complain. Do something about it."
So, that's exactly what I did and I decided to run for state legislature. But it wasn't easy. I ran against the longest-serving legislator in the state and hardly anyone thought I had a chance. I was polling at 15 percent a week before the primary. But the people of South Carolina took a chance on me, and we won.
It was an honor to serve the people as a state legislator. I fought against the status quo and stood up for the people of my district. When I fought for government transparency by pushing to make sure important votes were on the record, my colleagues retaliated. They stripped me of my committees. So I decided to run for governor.
When I campaigned for governor, people didn't know who I was. I was polling in fourth place, with limited time until Election Day. I was the least funded and least known GOP candidate. But together, we defied expectations and won. Then, we made a difference in South Carolina by cutting taxes, creating thousands of jobs, and revitalizing our economy.
When I was nominated as Ambassador to the United Nations, people said I didn't have the experience. I proved them wrong. When I got to the UN, I took the "kick me" sign off our back. I told the world that America would have the backs of our allies, and for those who did not have our backs, we were taking names! The dictators, murderers, and thieves at the UN didn't know what hit them.
Now, I'm running for President because our country is heading down a path of doubt, division, and self-destruction. We need a leader who will rise to the occasion, offer solutions, and prioritize serving the people over the political class.
It would mean a lot to me if every single person reading this today could send a donation of just $10 to help me keep my campaign momentum STRONG!
Your donation will not only show that my campaign is a force to be reckoned with, but it will also play a vital role in helping fund our campaign in the upcoming days.
Will you consider making a one-time donation of any amount today to show the of OUR movement?
Friend, throughout my life, I've been shaking up the status quo. I'm hoping to do the same as your next President. But in order to get there, I need your help – starting right now.
Your contribution is what keeps this movement alive and thriving, so thank you for standing with me.
My very best,
Nikki Haley
Gutter wrote: Fri Nov 8th 2:16pm
New President - New Gutter. I am going to pledge my allegiance to Donald J. Trump and for the next 4 years I am going to be an even bigger asshole than I already am.
Have we fallen into a mesmerized state that makes us accept as inevitable that which is inferior or detrimental, as though having lost the will or the vision to demand that which is good?
KUTradition wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 11:05 am
what do you do to get on these mailing lists?
That's a fantastic question! I honestly don't know. I have voted in both Democratic and Republican primaries. That may be all it takes. I received an email from the Biden/Harris folks today as well.
Biden-Harris 2024
Quick question for you, friend:
Can you make a contribution to help reelect President Joe Biden and keep Donald Trump out of the White House in 2024? Anything you can pitch in right now will make a real difference >>
If you've saved payment information with ActBlue Express, your donation will go through immediately:
$25 >>
$50 >>
$100 >>
$250 >>
$500 >>
Other >>
The choice in this election is pretty clear. President Biden is working to create jobs, bring down the cost of prescription drugs, and build our economy from the middle out.
Donald Trump and MAGA Republicans are going after our fundamental freedoms. They’re talking about banning abortion nationwide, taking health insurance away from millions of people, and stacking the deck for America’s biggest corporations.
Every $1, $10, or $25 contribution from grassroots supporters like you helps hire organizers in battleground states and launch new ads to reach voters with the facts about this campaign.
Will you pitch in $1 today to help? Your support is critical to reelecting President Biden and Vice President Harris
Thank you for all you do to fight for our shared values. As President Biden often says, there’s nothing beyond our capacity when we do it together.
Team Biden-Harris
Gutter wrote: Fri Nov 8th 2:16pm
New President - New Gutter. I am going to pledge my allegiance to Donald J. Trump and for the next 4 years I am going to be an even bigger asshole than I already am.
KARL: I hear you say that a lot, chaos follows him, but is it chaos follows him or does he create the chaos? I mean that sounds so passive, he – chaos follows him.
HALEY: I mean I – rightly or wrongly. You call it whatever you want to call it. But when you feel it, it’s chaos. When I tell these rooms that, they all nod their head. They get it. It's the chaos. And Americans are tired. They want government to work for them again. And they want to win. And you look at these general election polls and Biden and Trump are head to head. It's going to be another nail-biter...
KARL: So, let me ask you, speaking of Trump, he has claimed absolute immunity in his defense to the election interference case. Is that your view? Do you believe a president has absolute immunity for anything that happens while they're president?
HALEY: I'm going to let the courts figure that out. I mean the last thing you're going to see me do is weigh in or learn the details about any of his court cases because I can't follow 91 charges, and I'm not going to.
KARL: That makes – that makes total sense but let me just ask you on the principle. Forget his case. Do you think that a president of the United States, that if you would get elected president you would have absolute immunity for anything you did while you were president?
HALEY: Well, I think the court issues are, do you have immunity when you’re president, when you're not president? At what point does that line fall? I'm going to let judges decide that. I don't know where the line falls. President Trump's going to have to defend himself no matter what. If he's found guilty, he's found guilty. If he's found innocent, he's found innocent. It would be wasted energy for me to sit there and focus on court cases and not focus on how to win that room that we just left.
KARL: Because that sounds a lot like saying you’re above the law, that a president’s above the law, that you can do whatever you want.
HALEY: I mean he can answer for himself. I am not in a court case. I'm happy I don't have to answer for that. So, let him answer it.
craven cra·ven /ˈkrāvən/
adjective
contemptibly lacking in courage; cowardly. "a craven abdication of his moral duty"
Shirley wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2023 8:14 am
Today In: Oh the craven* webs you weave, when your party is a personality cult, and your goal is to depose & replace the "personality".
Cowards gonna coward: (Nikki Haley's interview with ABC's Jonathan Karl)
KARL: I hear you say that a lot, chaos follows him, but is it chaos follows him or does he create the chaos? I mean that sounds so passive, he – chaos follows him.
HALEY: I mean I – rightly or wrongly. You call it whatever you want to call it. But when you feel it, it’s chaos. When I tell these rooms that, they all nod their head. They get it. It's the chaos. And Americans are tired. They want government to work for them again. And they want to win. And you look at these general election polls and Biden and Trump are head to head. It's going to be another nail-biter...
KARL: So, let me ask you, speaking of Trump, he has claimed absolute immunity in his defense to the election interference case. Is that your view? Do you believe a president has absolute immunity for anything that happens while they're president?
HALEY: I'm going to let the courts figure that out. I mean the last thing you're going to see me do is weigh in or learn the details about any of his court cases because I can't follow 91 charges, and I'm not going to.
KARL: That makes – that makes total sense but let me just ask you on the principle. Forget his case. Do you think that a president of the United States, that if you would get elected president you would have absolute immunity for anything you did while you were president?
HALEY: Well, I think the court issues are, do you have immunity when you’re president, when you're not president? At what point does that line fall? I'm going to let judges decide that. I don't know where the line falls. President Trump's going to have to defend himself no matter what. If he's found guilty, he's found guilty. If he's found innocent, he's found innocent. It would be wasted energy for me to sit there and focus on court cases and not focus on how to win that room that we just left.
KARL: Because that sounds a lot like saying you’re above the law, that a president’s above the law, that you can do whatever you want.
HALEY: I mean he can answer for himself. I am not in a court case. I'm happy I don't have to answer for that. So, let him answer it.
craven cra·ven /ˈkrāvən/
adjective
contemptibly lacking in courage; cowardly. "a craven abdication of his moral duty"
To me, the #1-#12,362 issues between now and next November are all: no Donald Trump in the big chair.
So I was happy for Haley's modest-but-possibly-real ascent, even if I think Haley would have a MUCH MUCH MUCH better chance to beat Biden than would Trump (and I still don't want this iteration of the R party anywhere near the big chair).
However - and I'm just restating your point - things like this tell me she doesn't have the steel for it. You're not going to beat Trump by finessing a Goldilocks path that is just antagonistic enough to engage never-Trumpers, and just placating enough to engage Trumpers.
Maybe she's keeping her powder dry and will (would?) go for the kill once it's a two-horse race.
But that's not what her history says. And that's not what this sentiment says.
Shirley wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2023 8:14 am
Today In: Oh the craven* webs you weave, when your party is a personality cult, and your goal is to depose & replace the "personality".
Cowards gonna coward: (Nikki Haley's interview with ABC's Jonathan Karl)
KARL: I hear you say that a lot, chaos follows him, but is it chaos follows him or does he create the chaos? I mean that sounds so passive, he – chaos follows him.
HALEY: I mean I – rightly or wrongly. You call it whatever you want to call it. But when you feel it, it’s chaos. When I tell these rooms that, they all nod their head. They get it. It's the chaos. And Americans are tired. They want government to work for them again. And they want to win. And you look at these general election polls and Biden and Trump are head to head. It's going to be another nail-biter...
KARL: So, let me ask you, speaking of Trump, he has claimed absolute immunity in his defense to the election interference case. Is that your view? Do you believe a president has absolute immunity for anything that happens while they're president?
HALEY: I'm going to let the courts figure that out. I mean the last thing you're going to see me do is weigh in or learn the details about any of his court cases because I can't follow 91 charges, and I'm not going to.
KARL: That makes – that makes total sense but let me just ask you on the principle. Forget his case. Do you think that a president of the United States, that if you would get elected president you would have absolute immunity for anything you did while you were president?
HALEY: Well, I think the court issues are, do you have immunity when you’re president, when you're not president? At what point does that line fall? I'm going to let judges decide that. I don't know where the line falls. President Trump's going to have to defend himself no matter what. If he's found guilty, he's found guilty. If he's found innocent, he's found innocent. It would be wasted energy for me to sit there and focus on court cases and not focus on how to win that room that we just left.
KARL: Because that sounds a lot like saying you’re above the law, that a president’s above the law, that you can do whatever you want.
HALEY: I mean he can answer for himself. I am not in a court case. I'm happy I don't have to answer for that. So, let him answer it.
craven cra·ven /ˈkrāvən/
adjective
contemptibly lacking in courage; cowardly. "a craven abdication of his moral duty"
To me, the #1-#12,362 issues between now and next November are all: no Donald Trump in the big chair.
So I was happy for Haley's modest-but-possibly-real ascent, even if I think Haley would have a MUCH MUCH MUCH better chance to beat Biden than would Trump (and I still don't want this iteration of the R party anywhere near the big chair).
However - and I'm just restating your point - things like this tell me she doesn't have the steel for it. You're not going to beat Trump by finessing a Goldilocks path that is just antagonistic enough to engage never-Trumpers, and just placating enough to engage Trumpers.
Maybe she's keeping her powder dry and will (would?) go for the kill once it's a two-horse race.
But that's not what her history says. And that's not what this sentiment says.
... I think Haley would have a MUCH MUCH MUCH better chance to beat Biden than would Trump...
^^^ 100%
...things like this tell me she doesn't have the steel for it. You're not going to beat Trump by finessing a Goldilocks path that is just antagonistic enough to engage never-Trumpers, and just placating enough to engage Trumpers...
^^^
...The proverb "when you strike at a king, you must kill him" is attributed to Ralph Waldo Emerson, but Emerson was expressing an idea that goes back at least to Machiavelli, who advises in The Prince that "men ought either to be well treated or crushed, because they can avenge themselves of lighter injuries, of more serious ones they cannot; therefore the injury that is to be done to a man ought to be of such a kind that one does not stand in fear of revenge."
Something has to happen to get Trump's cult, i.e., republicans, to abandon him. We've already seen that being indicted for trying to overthrow the government, threatening to suspend the constitution, quoting Hitler, and being a lop dog for our enemies, et al, weren't sufficient...so I wouldn't hold my breath. Otherwise, even if it does come down to the two of them and she were to somehow win the primary, he'll add her to his list of alibis and excuses for being a classless pussy unable to admit that he lost, and go scorched-earth to make sure she doesn't succeed in the general*.
*Except, and another illustration of your point: ...she doesn't have the steel for it...
Haley was one of the very fine Americans on the republican primary debate stage this summer who raised her hand to pledge that if Trump is convicted, she'll pardon him. So there is, that...
“The Electoral College is DEI for rural white folks.”
Derek Cressman
It's very important - crucially important - to recognize that R voters do not care about any of Trump's specific shit (like lunacy over windmills, or confusion over who he defeated in 2016, outright racism and so on).
Why is that?
Because they do not really care nearly as much about Trump, as they do about Trumpism. The seething white male grievance. The fear. The absolutism, the brutalism.
Opposing candidates MUST understand that whatever number of voters were so turned off by Trump that they would not support Trumpism, have already left him. Nobody that's still with him cares; "I could shoot a man in daylight on Fifth Avenue" was a self-fulfilling prophecy.
So, the Ds now very much DO need to run and win on issues. Specifically, keep the government out of people's pants/bedrooms, stop fucking with people's right to vote, and keep your guns out of my kids' schools and your bullets out of my kids' heads. And just keep sawing wood on the economy.
jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2023 10:46 am
It's very important - crucially important - to recognize that R voters do not care about any of Trump's specific shit (like lunacy over windmills, or confusion over who he defeated in 2016, outright racism and so on).
Why is that?
Because they do not really care nearly as much about Trump, as they do about Trumpism. The seething white male grievance. The fear. The absolutism, the brutalism.
Opposing candidates MUST understand that whatever number of voters were so turned off by Trump that they would not support Trumpism, have already left him. Nobody that's still with him cares; "I could shoot a man in daylight on Fifth Avenue" was a self-fulfilling prophecy.
So, the Ds now very much DO need to run and win on issues. Specifically, keep the government out of people's pants/bedrooms, stop fucking with people's right to vote, and keep your guns out of my kids' schools and your bullets out of my kids' heads. And just keep sawing wood on the economy.
^^^
Sadly, emphasizing Biden's economic accomplishments hasn't carried the day, and isn't likely to as much as we wish it would. But, making it a choice between Trump and Biden definitely wins for Biden, and using the issues you named to illustrate that choice, is what we can expect Biden's reelection campaign to emphasize as the election draws nearer.
“The Electoral College is DEI for rural white folks.”
Derek Cressman
