Svi may be playing himself in to the D/G/F/P/Z whatever the heck it's called today League once Ty Chand comes aboard.
Dude just isn't feeling it yet. Shooting .267 FG and .143 3PT.
One thing he has going for him is LeBron likes him a lot.
I kind of thought Wiggins would have a big game with Butler out again last night for "rest".
Re: Jawhawks in the NBA
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:07 am
by jfish26
It’s getting harder and harder expecting Wiggins to ever be what his skills and intelligence say he should be.
Re: Jawhawks in the NBA
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:49 am
by Deleted User 75
jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:07 am
It’s getting harder and harder expecting Wiggins to ever be what his skills and intelligence say he should be.
Ya. Already starting to be "bust" talk. I'm not ready to write him off as a bust, but I think it's obvious he will never be a top 10 player in the league like I kind of thought he would eventually become. He's still young though. It took DeMar DeRozan a few years to figure everything out and now he's a top 15 or so player in the league. Maybe Wiggins can get there as well.
Re: Jawhawks in the NBA
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:59 am
by Deleted User 183
Problem is he was overrated from day 1. Not his fault NBA GMs and Scouts draft based on "potential" and it's usually a crap shoot as to how a young kid will adapt to the NBA. If he were a late first rounder I think everyone would feel he's been a very good NBA player.
Re: Jawhawks in the NBA
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:19 am
by jfish26
Gutter wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:59 am
Problem is he was overrated from day 1. Not his fault NBA GMs and Scouts draft based on "potential" and it's usually a crap shoot as to how a young kid will adapt to the NBA. If he were a late first rounder I think everyone would feel he's been a very good NBA player.
I don't really see things this way.
1. What does it mean to say Wiggins was "overrated"?
Yes, it's simple to say "he was the #1 recruit and #1 overall pick, and he's a mediocre NBA player." That's also missing the point - he wasn't "overrated" in the sense that he's not as talented as we thought. He's every bit as talented as we thought. He just cannot, for whatever reason, translate that talent into production.
I don't think he was drafted based on potential - it didn't take a lot of imagination to envision Wiggins being an NBA all star. He didn't need to grow, or fill out or slim down, or mature from a personal standpoint. He didn't need seasoning and didn't need to learn to handle pressure; all eyes have been on him since he was 12, and he played against the best guys, always.
To date, though, he has just missed. To date, he seems like an object case of you can't make a guy hungry; but for fleeting glimpses, he's just never been a killer. I don't care about the hands on the hips or any of that in an objective sense, but here that body language really does show you what's going on underneath. He's not a sleepy-eyed assassin, like a McGrady. He's not an effortless monster, like a Durant. He really is just passive and complacent (at least to this point in his career).
2. Would you be satisfied with the numbers from a late-first-rounder? Sure. But I think a guy with his approach who was a late-first-rounder would never have had the opportunity to put up the kinds of numbers he has, and might well be on his way out of the league.
jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:07 am
It’s getting harder and harder expecting Wiggins to ever be what his skills and intelligence say he should be.
Ya. Already starting to be "bust" talk. I'm not ready to write him off as a bust, but I think it's obvious he will never be a top 10 player in the league like I kind of thought he would eventually become. He's still young though. It took DeMar DeRozan a few years to figure everything out and now he's a top 15 or so player in the league. Maybe Wiggins can get there as well.
I think so, too, and of course I want him to succeed. But at some point either the light goes on (and he's Paul George) or it doesn't (and he's a smaller Rudy Gay). The latter will make him $200mm+, but it'll feel pretty hollow to us.
jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:07 am
It’s getting harder and harder expecting Wiggins to ever be what his skills and intelligence say he should be.
Ya. Already starting to be "bust" talk. I'm not ready to write him off as a bust, but I think it's obvious he will never be a top 10 player in the league like I kind of thought he would eventually become. He's still young though. It took DeMar DeRozan a few years to figure everything out and now he's a top 15 or so player in the league. Maybe Wiggins can get there as well.
I think so, too, and of course I want him to succeed. But at some point either the light goes on (and he's Paul George) or it doesn't (and he's a smaller Rudy Gay). The latter will make him $200mm+, but it'll feel pretty hollow to us.
His handles, shot, and creativity have always somewhat limited him.
I watch him attack, and it's like he's already made up his mind what "move" he's going to do before it even starts. He doesn't adjust to the defense as well as many of the elite scorers do.
Gutter wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:59 am
Problem is he was overrated from day 1. Not his fault NBA GMs and Scouts draft based on "potential" and it's usually a crap shoot as to how a young kid will adapt to the NBA. If he were a late first rounder I think everyone would feel he's been a very good NBA player.
I don't really see things this way.
1. What does it mean to say Wiggins was "overrated"?
Yes, it's simple to say "he was the #1 recruit and #1 overall pick, and he's a mediocre NBA player." That's also missing the point - he wasn't "overrated" in the sense that he's not as talented as we thought. He's every bit as talented as we thought. He just cannot, for whatever reason, translate that talent into production.
I don't think he was drafted based on potential - it didn't take a lot of imagination to envision Wiggins being an NBA all star. He didn't need to grow, or fill out or slim down, or mature from a personal standpoint. He didn't need seasoning and didn't need to learn to handle pressure; all eyes have been on him since he was 12, and he played against the best guys, always.
To date, though, he has just missed. To date, he seems like an object case of you can't make a guy hungry; but for fleeting glimpses, he's just never been a killer. I don't care about the hands on the hips or any of that in an objective sense, but here that body language really does show you what's going on underneath. He's not a sleepy-eyed assassin, like a McGrady. He's not an effortless monster, like a Durant. He really is just passive and complacent (at least to this point in his career).
2. Would you be satisfied with the numbers from a late-first-rounder? Sure. But I think a guy with his approach who was a late-first-rounder would never have had the opportunity to put up the kinds of numbers he has, and might well be on his way out of the league.
1) To me, it means that a whole bunch of people on the .com/.net were trying to convince me that he was going to be an NBA MVP one day. It means that he was being drafted based on his performances in games such as against WVU and OSU and not his game against Stanford.
Sure he was uber "talented" and the sad thing is so were Ben and Josh to the point that they were both top 7 picks and as far as I am concerned, are a lot more disappointing in the NBA than Wiggins is.
I (and I figure anyone and everyone else who knows about Wiggins) agree with you that "He just cannot, for whatever reason, translate that talent into production".
I feel every player is drafted based on potential. It's always an unknown how a kid will develop in the NBA.
Look at the past drafts and tell me it's not a "crap shoot". https://stats.nba.com/draft/history/ but....
You brought up excellent points.
The thing that is baffling to me is that we have all seen what he does and can do when he busts his ass.
Almost makes me think he would have been better off trying to feel disrespected coming out of college than being the #1 pick.
2. I think you're right.
Re: Jawhawks in the NBA
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:33 pm
by Kyblueblood
Anyone think the possibility of a coaching change and sending Butler away and picking up a decent player for him might spark their two #1 picks?
In many interviews, KAT has always said Wiggins is the best player on the team. Maybe to piss Butler off but maybe not as he has probably witnessed things we haven’t.
Re: Jawhawks in the NBA
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:38 pm
by Deleted User 75
Kyblueblood wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:33 pm
Anyone think the possibility of a coaching change and sending Butler away and picking up a decent player for him might spark their two #1 picks?
In many interviews, KAT has always said Wiggins is the best player on the team. Maybe to piss Butler off but maybe not as he has probably witnessed things we haven’t.
Wiggins isn't the best player on the team. Most athletic talent, sure. Best at basketball, no. Jimmy and KAT are better than Wiggins.
I am really confused why he's still there if it was true that Houston offered 3 or 4 1st round picks for him....obviously they wouldn't be lotto picks (most likely), but late 1st round picks still would be good for them.
Re: Jawhawks in the NBA
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:19 pm
by TDub
When i hear sleepy eyed assassin i think Pierce. That dude never seemed like he was moving fast but always found a way past his man. Amazing.
Kyblueblood wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:33 pm
Anyone think the possibility of a coaching change and sending Butler away and picking up a decent player for him might spark their two #1 picks?
In many interviews, KAT has always said Wiggins is the best player on the team. Maybe to piss Butler off but maybe not as he has probably witnessed things we haven’t.
Wiggins isn't the best player on the team. Most athletic talent, sure. Best at basketball, no. Jimmy and KAT are better than Wiggins.
I am really confused why he's still there if it was true that Houston offered 3 or 4 1st round picks for him....obviously they wouldn't be lotto picks (most likely), but late 1st round picks still would be good for them.
Those latter two Houston picks might very well be very high-lottery picks. I also think that is a dumb offer for Minnesota to turn down.
Re: Jawhawks in the NBA
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:52 pm
by jfish26
Kyblueblood wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:33 pm
Anyone think the possibility of a coaching change and sending Butler away and picking up a decent player for him might spark their two #1 picks?
In many interviews, KAT has always said Wiggins is the best player on the team. Maybe to piss Butler off but maybe not as he has probably witnessed things we haven’t.
I'd like to think a change away from Thibs would be good for Wiggins (and it might well be, stylistically). That said, the character traits we're really looking for - aggression, passion, relentlessness, focus - have been hiding (or have simply not been present at all) for much longer than just Thibs' time with Wiggins.
Re: Jawhawks in the NBA
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:13 pm
by Kyblueblood
Jimmy Butler will be hard to move so turning down that many 1st with 2 possible high lottery picks is insane.
Butler is looking for 5/200 on his next contract. He’s a fine player but not worth that kind of cash. He could be very disruptive to a team as well. He is often injured the past few years.
Re: Jawhawks in the NBA
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:25 am
by Deleted User 183
Kyblueblood wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:33 pm
Anyone think the possibility of a coaching change and sending Butler away and picking up a decent player for him might spark their two #1 picks?
In many interviews, KAT has always said Wiggins is the best player on the team. Maybe to piss Butler off but maybe not as he has probably witnessed things we haven’t.
Never once heard or read KAT say Wiggins is the best player on the team.
Can/will you please share a link which shows/says he said it?