Och

[pdub]

Of course there's a number of reasons to come back ( I won't mention the ones that will bother people because it doesn't directly tie to money ) but if we are talking just about money, then getting picked at guaranteed lotto money, with the contracts set the way they are, is preferable than a non guaranteed 2nd round deal, even if you "loose" a year of that contract.

2nd round deal for Vonte:
990k 1st year, 1.4 million 2nd year, 1st 2 years guaranteed.
4 million for 3 years if all exercised.

14th pick in NBA draft:
2.1 million 1st year, 2.5 2nd year, 1st 2 years guaranteed, option for 3/4th year ( which most teams exercise ).
7.5 for 3 years if all exercised.

That's 3.5 million if he waits a year and gets to the lotto ( and low lotto pick at that ).

[Deleted User 89]

i'm hesitant to call Grimes soft

it still looks to me like he's either thinking to much, or just hasn't adjusted to the athleticism at this level

as to Ochai, definitely a diamond in the rough. it wasn't just Self that underestimated his ability, particularly as it relates to being "ready" to contribute

I think, for the balance of this season, Grimes has been "soft" in the way Bill uses the word. That's not to say the light can't go on...it's just very hard to overstate how disappointing Grimes has been, based on where everyone from suggestion-box-filler to suggestion-box-reader thought he'd be.

fair enough. i guess my eye test goes more to physicality when using that word, which i don't really think Grimes lacks.

[Deleted User 89]

I dunno, im just happy hes as good as he is right now. We need him to be this good and its enjoyable to watch him succeed and flourish. Whatever happens the next couple years happens. If he is able to leave early and be a lotto pick in the future then more power to him. We'll jump off that bridge when we get there.

and if that happens, it likely means that the whole team had success

[CrimsonNBlue]

I don't think anyone could have anticipated how great he was going to be. Going from un-ranked and barely recruited, to one of the best players in the league. It's amazing.

It's looking like a Jarrett Culver-type rise/path at this rate.

Unknown recruit. Wow season as a freshman. Best player on the team as a sophomore. Lotto pick.

[Deleted User 75]

I think someone would take a chance on him this year.

Lotto is always a lot harder to obtain that it seems in theory. There are always at least a couple foreign players we've never heard of who get taken early. He's got some impressive attributes, but he's not quite as athletic as Wiggins or Oubre were. But good size for a SG in the NBA. And for some reason it seems the NBA loves the unknown. If he comes back next year and looks similar then that will hurt him...or if he comes back next year and the light comes on for Grimes.

I can see positive outcomes either way. In the end you're usually either good enough to make it or you're not. There are lotto picks who don't stick and never amount to shit, and there are 2nd rounders who turn into starters and all stars.

[pdub]

If he comes back next year and the light comes on for Grimes, it shouldn't affect him.
Dotson, Grimes and Ochai would all be out on the court together.
And if that happens our backcourt would be one of the best in the nation.

[Deleted User 75]

Right now he looks like our best pro prospect....Dotson and Grimes could easily surpass him next year and that could hurt him. But maybe they won't, and he will still be better than them.

I guess part of my thinking is that 5 months ago he wasn't even on the NBA radar....is he just really hot right now, or is he really this good, or does he look really good because those around him are struggling....I'm sure it's a combo.... I think the NBA may love the unknowns with him even right now, and he may be able to capitalize on that.

Let's say he averages close to 20pts the rest of the season and looks like our best player.....how could he possible do much better than that next year?...he does that the remainder of this year and he may already be a guaranteed 1st rounder. I think the newness of the "name" helps in this scenario.

Conversely grimes may never be able to recover from how disappointting he's looked this year. He may never get a good look in the 1st round now....ochai may never get a better look.

[CrimsonNBlue]

There is plenty to come back for a sophomore season. I definitely don't buy that this is Och's best chance. He will have played less than half a season, and the way he's played this season will also go into his portfolio for the 2020 draft.

[pdub]

If he averages 20 PPG the rest of the season and there are people in important positions ( and with a history of reliability ) telling him there are teams that would pick him lotto, OK.

I'd say considering he just burned his shirt and doesn't have the hype, it's in his best interest to come back and be the face of a top team, if not just for money sake but perhaps also because he wants to enjoy college at a program he clearly loves.

[CrimsonNBlue]

Only chance he leaves is if the scouts love him as much as they loved Zhaire Smith last year.

Smith was at least a couple of years ahead of schedule, would have thrived if he came back, but you can't pass up lotto.

[pdub]

And as great as he has been, he hasn't had the consistency yet to where I think he'd be a guaranteed 1st round pick.
He's had a number of 7 points or fewer games ( half of them ) in his career.

[Deleted User 75]

I think it's hard to pass up any guarantee for a lot of people.

It used to be only lotto. Lately it's been more like 1st round guarantees are enough. Hell, some guys would just rather play for money than play for free and even a 2nd round guarantee is enough.

He's different than maybe anyone except Embiid. Most of our guys come in expecting/wanting to be 1 and done. He came in probably not even thinking he'd ever be an NBA player. Embiid was thinking a few years before he was ready, but he exploded up the draft boards. I think Agbaji is doing similar, even though not to the extent of Embiid obviously.

I'd have to look at the differences in classes, but outside of the Duke boys this doesn't seem to be an insanely talented draft class this year....edit: and that Murray state kid.

[jfish26]

This draft is paper-thin on backcourt prospects. There's definitely an opportunity.

I wouldn't begrudge Och for striking while the iron is hot, particularly given the unknowns that go along with staying at KU.

I do think - and selfishly hope - that the good things that go along with staying at KU may be worth it to him.

[Deleted User 75]

I am not totally familiar with his family situation so I could be making a bad assumption here, but I think it's a huge advantage that he doesn't have family depending on him to make money and support them.

For some of our recruits coming from extreme poverty there is a different need for them to get to the pros as quickly as possible. It doesn't seem he has any of those pressures. Which means he can do whatever he wants. Some of our guys don't have that option. They've got little brothers or sisters and parents depending on them. Even if that's not right, it's reality.

[PhDhawk]

The sample size is really small.

He certainly looked like an NBA talent on Saturday. He has the physical tools. But...I'm waiting to see how many games he looks like he did against texas or OSU and how many he looks like he did against WVU. He's going to start getting more attention from other teams now, it'll be interesting to see how he responds...and best of all, maybe the defense having to respect Agbaji can help Lawson out in the painted area.

[jfish26]

I am not totally familiar with his family situation so I could be making a bad assumption here, but I think it's a huge advantage that he doesn't have family depending on him to make money and support them.

For some of our recruits coming from extreme poverty there is a different need for them to get to the pros as quickly as possible. It doesn't seem he has any of those pressures. Which means he can do whatever he wants. Some of our guys don't have that option. They've got little brothers or sisters and parents depending on them. Even if that's not right, it's reality.

Obviously, very very much from the outside, it doesn't appear there's an immediate need. Now, we've had several one-and-done guys who also didn't seem to have an immediate need, and we've had guys from really tough backgrounds pass up an early opportunity.

So, all of these situations are different (and - again, JESUS CHRIST NCAA, it would be so easy for kids not to have to worry so much about this stuff).

I think KU really matters to Och. I think it was his dream school before he knew he was allowed to dream about it. Making good on his opportunity here might be very motivating. And I think we're a season away from wondering whether staying could really hurt him. Right now, he's relatively unknown nationally.

That'll change next preseason, when I expect he'll be preseason all-league. And if he follows through on that, it's possible his profile would have him high enough in the first round where there'd be a really tough decision.

[CrimsonNBlue]

This draft is paper-thin on backcourt prospects. There's definitely an opportunity.

This is one of the worst drafts in recent memory after the 2 duke guys.


Still, yes, Och is a year away from worrying about another season hurting his stock. He needs a minimum of a first round guarantee.

[Deleted User 89]

being a local kid, and having KU matter, the draw to leave a legacy could very well be a big deal

[twocoach]

i'm hesitant to call Grimes soft

it still looks to me like he's either thinking to much, or just hasn't adjusted to the athleticism at this level

as to Ochai, definitely a diamond in the rough. it wasn't just Self that underestimated his ability, particularly as it relates to being "ready" to contribute

I think, for the balance of this season, Grimes has been "soft" in the way Bill uses the word. That's not to say the light can't go on...it's just very hard to overstate how disappointing Grimes has been, based on where everyone from suggestion-box-filler to suggestion-box-reader thought he'd be.

fair enough. i guess my eye test goes more to physicality when using that word, which i don't really think Grimes lacks.

Agreed. Grimes hasnt been soft. He's just been uncertain and lacking confidence at times. I though he was excellent in the 2nd half vs okie state.

[jfish26]

I think, for the balance of this season, Grimes has been "soft" in the way Bill uses the word. That's not to say the light can't go on...it's just very hard to overstate how disappointing Grimes has been, based on where everyone from suggestion-box-filler to suggestion-box-reader thought he'd be.

fair enough. i guess my eye test goes more to physicality when using that word, which i don't really think Grimes lacks.

Agreed. Grimes hasnt been soft. He's just been uncertain and lacking confidence at times. I though he was excellent in the 2nd half vs okie state.

I guess, to me, those two things ARE "soft" as Bill uses it.