Self has more championships...just not more national ones
Re: Perspective
Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:23 pm
by holidaysmore
Which gets back to the age old argument of which is viewed more highly. Regular season or post season success.
I certainly believe that Self has had his fair share of tournament blunders and believe him only having one Natty out of the consecutive years of dominance is under whelming but understand that very few years the best team wins in a single elimination tournament.
Re: Perspective
Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:29 pm
by Deleted User 89
holidaysmore wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:23 pm
Which gets back to the age old argument of which is viewed more highly. Regular season or post season success.
I certainly believe that Self has had his fair share of tournament blunders and believe him only having one Natty out of the consecutive years of dominance is under whelming but understand that very few years the best team wins in a single elimination tournament.
and similarly, sustained success where the highs may not be as high but where the lows definitely aren’t nearly as low
i liked the streak of weeks in the top 25, the streak of tourney appearances, and the record for regular season titles
those will likely stick for a long, long time
people often forget who won a given natty
Re: Perspective
Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:38 pm
by ousdahl
in real time, regular season is way more fun. gimme lots of fun games over the course of November-March
in hindsight, although 2010 and 2020 were great for lots of wins throughout a season, 2012 and 2018 were way more fun.
Re: Perspective
Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:45 pm
by TDub
2* national titles. Self got robbed of 2020
Re: Perspective
Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:17 pm
by Deleted User 289
Trad hit the nail on the head. The streak of weeks in the top 25, the streak of tourney appearances, and the record for regular season titles, are things that Self deserves a TON of praise for.
No doubt what Self and his teams have accomplished is/are extraordinary.
Problem is many if not most people (other than KU fans) don't care about any of those things compared to winning a championship. They are all secondary.
"Perspective" is that winning a National Championship is Self's goal every year and he has fallen short of that goal all but once.
Of course winning a championship in a single elimination tournament is a tough task but for what it's worth, there are 5 guys who have won more National Championships than Self has seen he's been at KU.
To soften that blow - Calipari is NOT one of them.
Meanwhile, once again, I am 100% in support of saying how much credit Self deserves for everything he and his teams have accomplished.
Re: Perspective
Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:20 pm
by Deleted User 289
ousdahl wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:38 pm
in real time, regular season is way more fun. gimme lots of fun games over the course of November-March
in hindsight, although 2010 and 2020 were great for lots of wins throughout a season, 2012 and 2018 were way more fun.
Regular season is more fun than these moments? I respectfully disagree.
OOOOOOOOPPPPSSSSS! The first one wasn't too fun.
Re: Perspective
Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:22 pm
by pdub
I had a helluva time when Frank Mason sunk that game winning jumper vs your favorite team Gutter.
Re: Perspective
Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:41 pm
by CrimsonNBlue
Bill has had too many tourney blunders, but I don't know if there is a coach out there that is more fun to be a fan of. Final Four aspirations basically every season.
Re: Perspective
Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:41 pm
by Deleted User 289
pdub wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:22 pm
I had a helluva time when Frank Mason sunk that game winning jumper vs your favorite team Gutter.
I assume you're referring to the game winner against Dook. Yes?
The "meaningless" game back in November of 2016?
You know, the games in November that are always "meaningless" if/when we lose but aren't "meaningless" if/when we win.
Re: Perspective
Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:46 pm
by Deleted User 89
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:41 pm
Bill has had too many tourney blunders, but I don't know if there is a coach out there that is more fun to be a fan of. Final Four aspirations basically every season.
and this is what gets lost in the discussion
no other program can say that with a straight face over the past 20 years
Re: Perspective
Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:49 pm
by Deleted User 289
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:41 pm
Bill has had too many tourney blunders, but I don't know if there is a coach out there that is more fun to be a fan of. Final Four aspirations basically every season.
Speaking of coaches and fun to be a fan of.....
2:40 mark is my favorite college FOOTBALL coach.
Which of the ~25 of them that Roi is > Bill do these fall under?
Not a person on here who wouldn't have been happy if Roi stayed and won 3 'ships and we never had Self at KU. Amiright?
No guarantee that Roy would have won any championships at KU. Bringing it into the equation is pretty Gutterish of you.
You're right, there no guarantee he would have won any at KU.
Or, that he would have won 1. Or 2. Or 3. Or 4. Or 5. Or 6.........
My bringing his winning 3 championships in to the "equation" when someone pointed out that Self is better than Roi at 75 out of 100 coaching characteristics - may be "Gutterish" but I feel it's also extremely valid to the topic.
The main objective of a "Blue Blood" program is to win a championship.
Whatever "characteristics" Self is superior to Roi in/at, Roi has 3 rings and Bill has 1.
Whatever "characteristic/s" winning champiosnships fall under, it's been/in/to Roi's advantage over Bill's. That's all I was conveying. Make of it as you will. Which you obviously already have.
Just doing your job....got it.
FYI, a show of hands of Jayhawk fans who would rather have Roy over Bill for the past 17 years is going to be a really small group.
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:41 pm
Bill has had too many tourney blunders, but I don't know if there is a coach out there that is more fun to be a fan of. Final Four aspirations basically every season.
and this is what gets lost in the discussion
It does? I think it's talked about a lot. Certainly within the league.
The one un-fun thing about being a KU/Self fan is that the tournament isn't usually a ton of fun. Always a hot mess of nerves no matter the opponent.
No guarantee that Roy would have won any championships at KU. Bringing it into the equation is pretty Gutterish of you.
You're right, there no guarantee he would have won any at KU.
Or, that he would have won 1. Or 2. Or 3. Or 4. Or 5. Or 6.........
My bringing his winning 3 championships in to the "equation" when someone pointed out that Self is better than Roi at 75 out of 100 coaching characteristics - may be "Gutterish" but I feel it's also extremely valid to the topic.
The main objective of a "Blue Blood" program is to win a championship.
Whatever "characteristics" Self is superior to Roi in/at, Roi has 3 rings and Bill has 1.
Whatever "characteristic/s" winning champiosnships fall under, it's been/in/to Roi's advantage over Bill's. That's all I was conveying. Make of it as you will. Which you obviously already have.
Just doing your job....got it.
FYI, a show of hands of Jayhawk fans who would rather have Roy over Bill for the past 17 years is going to be a really small group.
CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:41 pm
Bill has had too many tourney blunders, but I don't know if there is a coach out there that is more fun to be a fan of. Final Four aspirations basically every season.
and this is what gets lost in the discussion
It does? I think it's talked about a lot. Certainly within the league.
The one un-fun thing about being a KU/Self fan is that the tournament isn't usually a ton of fun. Always a hot mess of nerves no matter the opponent.
it’s talked about by those that pay attention, not much by the casual fans (even those that are season ticket holders in some instances)
KU fans are spoiled, if not downright entitled at times
Re: Perspective
Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:30 pm
by Deleted User 289
Imagine being a UCLA fan from let's say 1960 to 1980.
Re: Perspective
Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:02 pm
by twocoach
NewtonHawk11 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:26 am
It happens more often than some think.
About happened Saturday too.
One small gripe that I have about Self is that he's kind of like Andy Reid and the Chiefs. They have a tendency to coast. Which is completely understandable, but it seems like KU doesn't beat teams like a drum anymore. Do they have games where they are clearly better and they are constantly ahead by 10-15 and it stays that way til the end, yeah. But it would be nice to just come out and make a 15 point lead at half a 30 point win.
That doesn't happen much.
At no point in last night's game did I ever get the feeling KU was coasting. They just stopped making shots, sucked at free throws and failed to adjust after Texas got their big man back from foul trouble.
