Kansas Crimson

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:45 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:41 am

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:35 amMore likely i doubted his chances at NBA success based on his skillset.

Thus, you were discounting any effect college performance may have on draft stock.

I generally agree, as would anyone here, that there are more impactful factors than college performance. But, nearly every single year we see a college kid get drafted in the first round that was nowhere on the radar a season before. There are like 50-100 players all trying to separate themselves.

No, i was discounting that someone with his skillset was a desired asset in todays nba.

We can run thru the list of why a Dok situation and an Och situation are almost nothing alike....but i think you are aware of those important details.

There are examples every single season of shooting guards who got drafted late 1st/early 2nd who were seniors. Plenty of reasons to believe that Agbaji could raise his draft stock with one more good season. Have you actually looked at any recent draft results?

"Exception or rule?"

Doesn't matter really.
The chances are still out there Ochai could significantly improve.
And even if he doesn't, and doesn't make a 'huge' difference draft position wise, but raises his stock from 40th to 30th - that's still a million or two in guarantees.

I think Och is gone based on what has been said. I have no idea if his camp feels like his stock has peaked, I am not sure how anyone would know that.

I do know that Och has had a very weird path for a guy that was regarded as a draft prospect as a freshman--this will be his first NBA combine. I would think his camp is thirsty for real feedback.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:16 am

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:10 am I doubt Och has much to gain (nba wise) so he might as well return to Kansas.

fyp?

Kinda how I look at it.

Does he have much to loose by coming back. (Some risk of a devastating injury I guess, but otherwise?)

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:14 pm "Exception or rule?"

Doesn't matter really.
The chances are still out there Ochai could significantly improve.
And even if he doesn't, and doesn't make a 'huge' difference draft position wise, but raises his stock from 40th to 30th - that's still a million or two in guarantees.

And if he doesn't he wastes a year of earning potential.

Pros and cons.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:15 pm I think Och is gone based on what has been said. I have no idea if his camp feels like his stock has peaked, I am not sure how anyone would know that.

I do know that Och has had a very weird path for a guy that was regarded as a draft prospect as a freshman--this will be his first NBA combine. I would think his camp is thirsty for real feedback.

His freshman draft stock was based almost solely off of "he's really springy", the mindset of drafting athletic dudes who haven't proven they can play that gets a lot of GMs fired.

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:12 pm

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:45 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:41 am

Thus, you were discounting any effect college performance may have on draft stock.

I generally agree, as would anyone here, that there are more impactful factors than college performance. But, nearly every single year we see a college kid get drafted in the first round that was nowhere on the radar a season before. There are like 50-100 players all trying to separate themselves.

No, i was discounting that someone with his skillset was a desired asset in todays nba.

We can run thru the list of why a Dok situation and an Och situation are almost nothing alike....but i think you are aware of those important details.

There are examples every single season of shooting guards who got drafted late 1st/early 2nd who were seniors. Plenty of reasons to believe that Agbaji could raise his draft stock with one more good season. Have you actually looked at any recent draft results?

I can't keep up with your moving of the goalposts on every single post...

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:16 pm

pdub wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:14 pm "Exception or rule?"

Doesn't matter really.
The chances are still out there Ochai could significantly improve.
And even if he doesn't, and doesn't make a 'huge' difference draft position wise, but raises his stock from 40th to 30th - that's still a million or two in guarantees.

And if he doesn't he wastes a year of earning potential.

Pros and cons.

I don't know that you know that for sure.

What's the average tenure of an NBA-player...3 years?

If you start the clock a year later are you sure you loose a year, or is a player going to be given more or less the same amount of time to prove himself whether he starts now or in a year?

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:17 pm

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:15 pm I think Och is gone based on what has been said. I have no idea if his camp feels like his stock has peaked, I am not sure how anyone would know that.

I do know that Och has had a very weird path for a guy that was regarded as a draft prospect as a freshman--this will be his first NBA combine. I would think his camp is thirsty for real feedback.

His freshman draft stock was based almost solely off of "he's really springy", the mindset of drafting athletic dudes who haven't proven they can play that gets a lot of GMs fired.

ok?

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:17 pm

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:15 pm I think Och is gone based on what has been said. I have no idea if his camp feels like his stock has peaked, I am not sure how anyone would know that.

I do know that Och has had a very weird path for a guy that was regarded as a draft prospect as a freshman--this will be his first NBA combine. I would think his camp is thirsty for real feedback.

His freshman draft stock was based almost solely off of "he's really springy", the mindset of drafting athletic dudes who haven't proven they can play that gets a lot of GMs fired.

He was regarded as really springy? Must have missed that one.

Och's bounce and ability to finish about the rim was the #1 reason the shirt was pulled.

First play was a designed alley-oop after a dead ball. The Och is not athletic thing needs to die right away if it was ever alive.

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:16 pm

ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:16 am

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:10 am I doubt Och has much to gain (nba wise) so he might as well return to Kansas.

fyp?

Kinda how I look at it.

Does he have much to loose by coming back. (Some risk of a devastating injury I guess, but otherwise?)

I guess, the way I see it, he does (even apart from injury risk). If he comes back and doesn't get better, then he's headed overseas for sure.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:30 pm

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:16 pm

ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:16 am

fyp?

Kinda how I look at it.

Does he have much to loose by coming back. (Some risk of a devastating injury I guess, but otherwise?)

I guess, the way I see it, he does (even apart from injury risk). If he comes back and doesn't get better, then he's headed overseas for sure.

To me though...in this scenario, that means he'd never make it with an nba team anyway. I mean, if you aren't good enough, you aren't good enough.

So the question is, would you rather play another year at KU, or play a year in the G-league, with a cup of coffee in the nba, in the year prior to playing in a foreign league.

Of course, option 2 pays you more money...but not the life changing kind.

One good thing is that pressure to make money ASAP does not seem to weigh into Agbaji's decision. He and his family seems to be doing just fine.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:28 am Did we have a draft thread?

Garrett and Wilson invited to the G League Elite Camp, for whatever that’s worth

Not saying my feelings are accurate or worth much… But I was more excited that Remy Martin missed the combine invite.

Indeed

Did he get the g league elite camp invite at least?

Ochai is a 6'5 athletic wing who should be able to hit shots and play some defense. He has very poor ballhandling and playmaking ability by NBA standards and he will be a role player at best in the nba

that hasn't changed and isn't changing. coming back won't help his nba prospects. he would've been drafted higher after his freshman year than he will this year and a year from now it wont be any higher

Unless he averages 18 and 8 and 20 and 10 in the tourney carrying us to a final four....or something.

Ben wasn't the greatest either at putting it on the floor but he some how got drafted in the seven spot. Och, IMO, is one of those cases that him coming back could really help to elevate his draft position if he can show NBA teams he can be a more consistent shooter, put the ball on the floor and be a more explosive wing.