Millennials didn’t kill the economy

[ousdahl]

I never said I’m a phd scientist know it all.

Just an exceptionally qualified silver spoon baby who had to grind for HOURS after graduating business school before earning this cushy corner office that my dad’s golfing buddy hooked up.

Since then, it’s been mostly spend time on the boreds, and also get free donuts hooked up at one of our brick and mortar spots in one of the floors below my corner office.

I like to go down there and pull the DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM til they give me bear claws for free, even though they’re usually short staffed.

One time a little donut staffer bitch had the audacity to suggest, hey we’re short staffed again and you work here too, how about instead of just big timing me for pastries, you jump behind the counter and actually do some work around here as well.

I told him no way bro, that’s not how capitalism works! Just cuz I have a corner office doesn’t mean you can expect me to actually do anything around here, besides I’m running late on my way to my vacation home for the rest of the week. And then I had him fired LOL

[PhDhawk]

I'm skeptical of the people who say they own a boat, or belong to a country club, or who claim Michigan isn't a shithole.

[defixione]

First my bonifides, because without them, you really can’t speak to anything. I am a Boomer, my wife is Gen X ( if only she were Asian my bonifide score would go waaaay the fuck up, but sadly….she is not) my oldest daughter is a Millennial and my youngest is Gen Z and my parents were in the Silent Generation.

FUCK YEAH!

NAILED IT!

Every one of those groups at some point turned 30 and looked at the pile of burning ashes around them which caused a level of despair for their future and blamed the generation before them. The onlyest thing dumber is to generalize any of these “generations/eras” as a homogeneous mass.

You could try to generalize by looking at someone’s childhood socio-economic group and geography, but anomalies are more common than you think. Defix started out on a farm with a religious family, went to college on a baseball scholarship, it just doesn’t get more All American than that. But then he chucks it all away and sails to Africa on a tramp steamer then moves to SF, discovers drugs, becomes a roadie for Flipper, becomes a member of the British Death Fleet Motorcycle Gang and has been circling the drain ever since. A more successful, less materialistic and happier person would be hard to find.

And drug use? Oh, for fuck’s sake. Humans have been trying to avoid reality/expand their consciousness/change their state of mind for thousands of years by ingesting something, anything that makes them feel bigger, better, than they do “normally”. Some people ingest weed and some ingest rage/anger/jealousy. To each their own.

And material acquisition often comes down to what you value. My wife always lived in small rundown houses that she builds up while she lives there. She finds furnishings in dumpsters and sinks in salvage yards, has never bought a new car and she loves her avocado toast. It’s her little luxury, she saved money on things she doesn’t value for those that she does. My youngest is a school teacher and drives a beater car and lives over a pet food store and her cell phone is so old she has to keep it plugged in all the time and has a small orchestra worth of musical instruments in her one room apartment. She sits there at night writing music and recording multiple tracks, playing every instrument herself. If she didn’t buy so many instruments or so much music she could afford a “nicer” apartment. But her place is a great music studio and that is what she values in her living quarters. Defix loves his table saws.

In any generation there is a lot of diversity, cuz that is how peoples works. We are all a product of our experiences and the people around us and places we have been. The more in common you have in those three things, the more you have in common with and understand other people regardless of their “generation”.

What’s my point?

FUCK YOU ALL!

Boomers own YOU, WE have all the money and buildings and the best drugs. WE earned IT!

WE rule the world and we are gonna burn this mutha to the ground on our way out the door leaving nothing behind but a haze of sour diesel fumes for you to choke on!

So get over it bitches.

Well, in my defense, I'd like to say that I did crawl back to the university at age 51 and get an MA. Which I chucked to find an art groove. I'm now a member in good standing of the Empire cult.

[japhy]

And I suppose the question to ask, and I’m genuinely asking is:

Are millennials unique in that, unlike other generations, their wealth really isn’t growing as much as they’re getting older?

You're not that old yet.

And everything ebbs and flows, you have to adjust. At age 26 I was making more money in $k's than my age, bought the only new car of my life and lived in a nice apartment in midtown. At age 30 I was driving a beater Jeep, was making half my age in $k's and was living in a run down shack in the hood. At age 40 I was on top of the world, building my dream house and making twice my age in $k's and driving a Land Rover. At age 50 I had moved to a HUD foreclosed house, had lost half my wealth and was driving a 20 year old 4Runner as we laid 40% of our staff off and partners took pay cuts. At age 60 I was making more than 5X my age in $k's and drive a 10 year old Tacoma, own 3 houses and a muthafuckin broke ass town. My wealth has grown and fallen as I "got older".

My millennial daughter is in her late 20's and makes 3.5X her age in $k's already. But she is smarter than I was, or am. She got an "A" in Differential Equations. She paid for her own education, working at Dillon's in the bakery. She was First Chair in the orchestra at KU, as an Engineering student. She is now working out the logistics of buying her first home and trying to decide if that is a good investment. Her trajectory is pretty damn good so far, but she is still deciding what she values most in life. And she has smoked weed since high school. She came up to me one day crying, she told me,"you are going to be so disappointed in me, I am so ashamed of myself, I just have to tell you, I smoke marijuana." I started laughing, "your have nothing to be ashamed of, if only you knew my high school and college backstory, it's a miracle I am alive." It helps her with anxiety, she has a prescription now.

Life will throw a lotta shit at you by the time you reach my age. You make plans, you set goals, and everything changes. Be resilient. Adjust your plans and goals. Most people get just a few opportunities in life that make a big difference in how their life plays out. Choose wisely and don't be afraid of risk, all opportunity comes with risk. You take your shot and live with it.

Talk to me at Solstice 10 years from now and let's see where you sit while we vape some weed.

[PhDhawk]

Ousdahl is almost 40 though.

[PhDhawk]

My office is surrounded by my lab, but my lab is in the corner. Do I have a corner office?

[ousdahl]

Whoa, marijuana?!?!


Japhy’s kid sounds like a failure

Right psych?

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

That drug abuse is ridiculous and unhealthy? That relying on mind-altering substances to deal with life is weak and pitiful? Guilty as charged.

Sometimes I find it difficult to engage in a conversation with you but I'm still going to try.

6 simple quick questions.
1. If someone has a beer or two or even three after work, are they an alcoholic in your mind?
2. If someone smokes a joint or a few hits of weed to "unwind", are they a drug abuser in your mind?
3. Do you feel marijuana is more dangerous to a person's health than alcohol?
4. Do you feel most (not all, not some) addicts enjoy being drug addicts?
5. Have you ever personally taken and/or have you prescribed a prescription "psych med"?
6. What do you do for a living and what are your qualifications?

I am a PhD psychologist who works full-time in academia and part-time in the clinical world. I have twenty years of experience in clinical work, including stints working inpatient substance abuse treatment and as the clinical director of an outpatient clinic for people addicted to opioids.

Not all prescription psych meds are equivalent. All seem to have some sort of discontinuation syndrome associated with them, but some, like benzodiazepines, are extremely addictive. They have their place when taken under the supervision of a prescribing medical professional, but are also widely abused and/or misused.

By definition, alcoholism (or substance dependence of any kind) is when someone uses more than they want or intend to use despite efforts to stop or unwanted negative consequences associated with use of the substance. So, no, someone who has a beer or three after work is not an alcoholic. Of greater concern is substance abuse, wherein one uses the substance to deal with life and it becomes a substitute for healthy coping mechanisms. That can lead to dependence.

No one I have ever met or worked with enjoyed being an addict. It is an insidious disease, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. It ruins lives and destroys families in ways most people can't imagine. The problem is, addiction is a slippery slope for a percentage of the population. They may start out binge drinking on the weekends or taking a few bong hits after work to unwind, but it leads to other substances and behaviors that contribute to an unhealthy lifestyle. I've lost track of how many stories I have heard in therapy about starting off taking a hit off a joint or drinking at a party in high school and end with giving blowjobs in cars in the parking lot of the methadone clinic so they can get their fix to get them through the day. It's heartbreaking.

Inhaling smoke of any variety is not good for your lungs. High levels of THC lead to hormone imbalances in men. THC leads to amotivational syndrome, which is rampant in the culture today. I've spent years listening to addicts argue that they should be able to quit the meth and the coke and the benzos, but keep smoking weed: "It's an herb, man. God made the plants, right?!?" And maybe that works for some people, but for most, recovery is an all-or-nothing lifestyle change. The frequent flyers in inpatient treatment programs are the ones who leave with the "I can have one beer" or "I can still smoke weed" mindset.

They always come back because they never address the root problem, which is that life is unfair, painful, and inconvenient sometimes, and there is no valid way to escape those realities. You either learn to deal with them or you hide behind substances and slowly kill yourself. Or you spend 15 hours a day lamenting your lack of social, financial, and vocational success on a message board and advocating for a complete overthrow of the social order because you aren't happy with your life decisions to this point and are unwilling to do anything to make it better.

A well thought out lengthy response and I sincerely appreciate it. Would probably be best if we discussed it privately but I will share my 2 cents publicly.

I'll begin by saying we happen to agree in most regards.

Obviously I am NOT a PhD psychologist who works full-time in academia and part-time in the clinical world.
I AM someone who has had "stints" in substance abuse treatment both as a "patient" and as a "mentor".
While I completely respect your credentials, my guess is you would agree that unless you yourself have ever had any drug addiction issues, you truly don't know exactly what goes through the mind of an addict.

I 100% agree that not all prescription psych meds are equivalent. The extent of my prescribed usage has ranged from Bupropion, to Sertraline, to Klonopin but that's it. I have seen people who have been prescribed "hardcore" meds when they have been on their meds and when they have been off their meds. AT TIMES it's been a very unpleasant thing to witness.
Absolutely there are many people who are taking psych meds that were NOT prescribed and they abuse them. Again, a very unpleasant thing to witness.

I don't know what actual legal and clinical definitions are 100% accurate in regards to alcoholism and substance abuse. What I do know is that I have been asked more than once if I considered myself to be a "user", "abuser", or "addict". I have been all 3 at various times. Defined and diagnosed both by myself and "clinically".
I am someone who "self medicated" frequently.
Of course addiction starts with a single "dosage" and goes on from there. Some can continue to use recreationally with little consequences and and some become addicts and or/have extreme health issues because of it.

I have to assume you're correct that inhaling any smoke of any kind in to your lungs is not a good thing.
We agree that for MOST it has to be 100% abstinence from any and all substances. Problem is we then start questioning what was the drug/s of choice in regards to abuse and addiction and can someone have a beer or two or smoke a few hits and be "ok". My perhaps ignorant response is, yes - for SOME but definitely not for ALL. Why would I be told it is NOT ok for me to smoke a few hits of weed but it IS ok for me to be dependent on a prescribed psych med?

We are on the same page in regards to the need to address the root problem/s and how people need to figure out how to deal with them. Problem is as I am sure you are well aware of, people deal with things in different ways. While exercise, diversions, finding things I enjoy and get pleasure from, should be and are my "outlets", how many times do you hear someone say, "I NEED a drink"? I question do they really NEED a drink or do they WANT a drink?

Of course there are times I come on here and simply vent. I choose this place as an outlet for several different reasons. Is it "healthy"? Probably not but at times it's a lot healthier for me to read what's posted and post myself than it would be for me to slam a bottle of Vodka and snort a 1/4 ounce of cocaine.
In regards to my making my life better, there are some things I can control and others I can not.
I can only control how I choose to deal with those things and at times I struggle.
Here is some brutal honesty from me. I have a very tough time with the serenity prayer in that a) I don't believe in "God" or even a "higher power" per se and I believe "God" or a "higher power" does nothing for me so why speak out and ask for help ("grant") from something that I don't believe exists and b) I fully admit I struggle with the "wisdom to know the difference".

Anyways, back to the original thought. I began this by questioning why you would poo poo over someone who "casually" smoked weed and obviously we got in to a much deeper conversation.

Moving on......

[japhy]

Ousdahl is almost 40 though.

So about the same age as Defix when he joined the British Death Fleet and was setting up equipment for Flipper in old warehouses. What may look like wasted time to you or me might turn out to be valuable experience for someone else. That's all I am saying.

[ousdahl]

Ousdahl is almost 40 though.

Sigh.

I should mention, I’m personally better off financially than I’ve ever been, with the best job (at least in terms of compensation) that I’ve ever had.

I’ve got a nice little nest egg going, a portfolio diversified even, with handsome contributions every month to mich’s 401k.

No mortgage, though I pay more than I’d like in rent. No kids or younger sugar baby of a wife or significant debt otherwise. It’s easier when you’re single and mostly just fish for fun.

I just don’t brag about it much online. Except for my sweet canoe…now THAT is an asset!

I think I can be financially stable on a personal level, and still curious about the generation and the country as a whole.

Supposedly a majority of Mericans don’t even have $1000 bucks in savings, living paycheck to paycheck, one emergency away from financial ruin.

And it concerns me, even if it doesn’t apply to me directly.

Shrug.

[RainbowsandUnicorns]

As someone eloquently stated to me last night, "Focus on what makes you happy - if you're unhappy. If you're happy, you're successful. No matter how much money you have or don't have".

[KUTradition]

Ousdahl is almost 40 though.

And it concerns me, even if it doesn’t apply to me directly.

this kind of thinking isn’t allowed here

you get labeled as a malcontent by the selfish and ignorant

[KUTradition]

As someone eloquently stated to me last night, "Focus on what makes you happy - if you're unhappy. If you're happy, you're successful. No matter how much money you have or don't have".

that’s a paraphrase of a Betty White mantra

[ousdahl]

Ousdahl is almost 40 though.

And it concerns me, even if it doesn’t apply to me directly.

this kind of thinking isn’t allowed here

you get labeled as a malcontent by the selfish and ignorant

Yeah, perhaps “not my problem” is one of the more unfortunate side effects of American individualism.

[japhy]

Well, in my defense, I'd like to say that I did crawl back to the university at age 51 and get an MA. Which I chucked to find an art groove. I'm now a member in good standing of the Empire cult.

If you are going to join a cult, it might as well be one with good drugs and that throws good parties. You are never too old for salvation.

I was a Catholic for years and it sucked by both measures.

[Cascadia]

Ousdahl is almost 40 though.

Sigh.

I should mention, I’m personally better off financially than I’ve ever been, with the best job (at least in terms of compensation) that I’ve ever had.

I’ve got a nice little nest egg going, a portfolio diversified even, with handsome contributions every month to mich’s 401k.

No mortgage, though I pay more than I’d like in rent. No kids or younger sugar baby of a wife or significant debt otherwise. It’s easier when you’re single and mostly just fish for fun.

I just don’t brag about it much online. Except for my sweet canoe…now THAT is an asset!

I think I can be financially stable on a personal level, and still curious about the generation and the country as a whole.

Supposedly a majority of Mericans don’t even have $1000 bucks in savings, living paycheck to paycheck, one emergency away from financial ruin.

And it concerns me, even if it doesn’t apply to me directly.

Shrug.

Are you trying to ruin the fun around here?

Can't blame you though, you've been unfairly typecast for such a long time.

[ousdahl]

Wait!

I mean, actually I’m broke cuz I don’t
like to work, I spent all my gummint handouts on weed, and my dad michhawk keeps threatening to take away my allowance

Better?

[PhDhawk]

Ousdahl is almost 40 though.

Sigh.

I should mention, I’m personally better off financially than I’ve ever been, with the best job (at least in terms of compensation) that I’ve ever had.

I’ve got a nice little nest egg going, a portfolio diversified even, with handsome contributions every month to mich’s 401k.

No mortgage, though I pay more than I’d like in rent. No kids or younger sugar baby of a wife or significant debt otherwise. It’s easier when you’re single and mostly just fish for fun.

I just don’t brag about it much online. Except for my sweet canoe…now THAT is an asset!

I think I can be financially stable on a personal level, and still curious about the generation and the country as a whole.

Supposedly a majority of Mericans don’t even have $1000 bucks in savings, living paycheck to paycheck, one emergency away from financial ruin.

And it concerns me, even if it doesn’t apply to me directly.

Shrug.

Japhy's post just seemed like a pep talk you'd give a 24 year old after their first rough patch. I assume at your (our) age, you've experienced ups and downs.

With regard to your goal of posting. I think the article and tweet you posted that started recent conversations are great examples of you accomplishing your goal and I appreciate the posts.


If that is your goal, you don't always hit the target, and I think that's why some of the boreds resident douchebags attacked you personally. For them, calling you lazy or whiney is just low hanging fruit.

I think these types of discussions are important and interesting. It's not complaining to point out these trends, especially when it's backed by data and not anecdotes.

Now answer my fucking question about whether my office is a corner variety!

[japhy]

Wait!

I mean, actually I’m broke cuz I don’t
like to work, I spent all my gummint handouts on weed, and my dad michhawk keeps threatening to take away my allowance

Better?

If you were my kid I would bitchslap you.

And then be nice to you.

And then bitchslap you some more,

before I was nice to you again.

It's that rollercoaster of emotional extremes that would let you know I love you. At least that is what my mother-in-law says.

[japhy]

Now answer my fucking question about whether my office is a corner variety!

Do you own the lab?

If not, it is just a cubicle with a view.