Kansas Crimson

I don't know about 25. I would say there have been/are about 20.
Very hard to compare guys from different eras. If I had to pick 25
I MIGHT/would pick in no particular order.....

Shaq
Magic
Bird
Kobe
Kareem
David Robinson
LeBron
MJ
Karl Malone
Hakeem
Wilt
Steph
Duncan
Russell
Robertson
West
Westbrook
Nash
Curry
Drexler
Stockton
Paul
Baylor
Moses Malone
Giannis

RainbowsandUnicorns wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 2:02 pm I don't know about 25. I would say there have been/are about 20.
Very hard to compare guys from different eras. If I had to pick 25
I MIGHT/would pick in no particular order.....

Shaq
Magic
Bird
Kobe
Kareem
David Robinson
LeBron
MJ
Karl Malone
Hakeem
Wilt
Steph
Duncan
Russell
Robertson
West
Westbrook
Nash
Curry
Drexler
Stockton
Paul
Baylor
Moses Malone
Giannis

Of those, I' d have Durant over these guys in overall rankings:
David Robinson (go look at his stats, he had 8 good seasons)
Jerry West
Westbrook
Nash
Drexler
Paul
Baylor
Malone
Giannis (WAY too early to have him on this kind of list)

twocoach wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 2:27 pm

RainbowsandUnicorns wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 2:02 pm I don't know about 25. I would say there have been/are about 20.
Very hard to compare guys from different eras. If I had to pick 25
I MIGHT/would pick in no particular order.....

Shaq
Magic
Bird
Kobe
Kareem
David Robinson
LeBron
MJ
Karl Malone
Hakeem
Wilt
Steph
Duncan
Russell
Robertson
West
Westbrook
Nash
Curry
Drexler
Stockton
Paul
Baylor
Moses Malone
Giannis

Of those, I' d have Durant over these guys in overall rankings:
David Robinson (go look at his stats, he had 8 good seasons)
Jerry West
Westbrook
Nash
Drexler
Paul
Baylor
Malone
Giannis (WAY too early to have him on this kind of list)

I don't disagree but I do feel valid arguments can be made.
On a related note, it's kind of bizarre (to me) that Giannis has been in the league at least 10 years. He's still just a kid to me.

pdub wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 10:48 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 10:40 am

RainbowsandUnicorns wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 1:28 pm

He's been a fantastic scorer. One of the best I have seen play the game.
What else does he do well? I'm being serious by asking. You know more about him than I do. Maybe you see things I don't see.
I happen to think/feel/believe he's overrated because I don't think/feel/believe he's one of the 10-15 best to ever play the game like some/many people believe he is.

I say that being he's still one of my favorite players - and one of the nicest I have interacted with.

Let me ask this, what do people rank Durant for him to be "overrated"? I don't hear many people at all trying to anoint him as anything more that one of the most unguardable scorers in NBA history, which he unquestionably is. I never see anyone mention him in any sort of GOAT or overall player rankings. I have never seen him listed in a Top 10 NBA players list that I can remember.

He's not in my top 10.
And he wouldn't be unless he went on to win another NBA title and Finals MVP.
But could he sneak into my top 15? Maybe?
He's easily in my top 25.

10. Bill Russell
9. Shaq
8. Kobe
7. Duncan
6. Bird
5. Magic
4. Kareem
3. Wilt
2. LeBron
1. MJ

Kobe and Shaq and Magic and Bird could swap spots and i'd be fine with it.

I stopped reading at Magic higher than Bird.

RainbowsandUnicorns wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 2:02 pm I don't know about 25. I would say there have been/are about 20.
Very hard to compare guys from different eras. If I had to pick 25
I MIGHT/would pick in no particular order.....

Shaq
Magic
Bird
Kobe
Kareem
David Robinson
LeBron
MJ
Karl Malone
Hakeem
Wilt
Steph
Duncan
Russell
Robertson
West
Westbrook
Nash
Curry
Drexler
Stockton
Paul
Baylor
Moses Malone
Giannis

Russell Westbrook?
And no Dirk or KG?
I'm dying here.

If I'm getting in trouble for having Magic one spot ahead of Bird, Gutter should be banned for putting Westbrook even near a top 25 all time.

pdub wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 7:35 pm

RainbowsandUnicorns wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 2:02 pm I don't know about 25. I would say there have been/are about 20.
Very hard to compare guys from different eras. If I had to pick 25
I MIGHT/would pick in no particular order.....

Shaq
Magic
Bird
Kobe
Kareem
David Robinson
LeBron
MJ
Karl Malone
Hakeem
Wilt
Steph
Duncan
Russell
Robertson
West
Westbrook
Nash
Curry
Drexler
Stockton
Paul
Baylor
Moses Malone
Giannis

Russell Westbrook?
And no Dirk or KG?
I'm dying here.

If I'm getting in trouble for having Magic one spot ahead of Bird, Gutter should be banned for putting Westbrook even near a top 25 all time.

First off, I used the word MIGHT.
My arguments for Russ....
He's one of only two players who averaged a triple double for a season. He did it 4 times. No one else has. Just as he is the only player to average a triple double three straight seasons.
He holds the record for most triple doubles in a career.
He had a game with 20 rebounds, 20 points, and 21 assists.
He had five consecutive 30-point triple-doubles in a season.
He led the league in scoring twice.
He led the league in assists 3 times.
He was a league MVP.
He is the only player to win the scoring title, MVP award, and average a triple-double in the same season - and win the scoring title and average at least 10 assists the following season.

Westbrook also get points for destroying a half dozen franchises.

That record might last

Overlander wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 11:22 pm Westbrook also get points for destroying a half dozen franchises.

That record might last

Gee Overlander, tell me/us, what 6 franchises did HE destroy?

Thunder? Unless I am mistaken, the Thunder were 20-62 before he got there. His last 3 seasons on the team they were 47-35, 46-34, 49-33.
Rockets? Unless I am mistaken, the Rockets were 44-28 with him on the team.
Wizards? Unless I am mistaken, the Wizards were 34-38. They were 25-47 the season before he played for them.
Lakers? Not too sure how he destroyed them. LeBron missed what? About 25 games? AD Missed what? About 40 games? Unless I am mistaken, Russ averaged the 3rd most points on the team. The most assists per game. Third most rebounds per game. People feel he had a shit ton of turnovers. He averaged 3.5 as PG. LeBron averaged 3.2 as a SF. People felt he shot horrendously. He shot 41.7% from the field - which is not doubt bad. Well, Schroeder shot 41.5%. Beasley shot 39.2%. Why don't they get criticized for that?
Clippers? Doesn't seem like the Clippers are ruined.

He’s a stat chaser.
His teammates have even hinted that’s the case.
He is an awful shooter.

He’s been to how many NBA finals?

You’ll find no reasonable list out there that has Russ in a top 25 all time. ESPNs recent panel had him in the mid 60s.

I’m not sure what’s worse, having Westbrook in a top 25 all time or not having Durant. Im leaning Westbrook.

pdub wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 5:47 am He’s a stat chaser.
His teammates have even hinted that’s the case.
He is an awful shooter.

He’s been to how many NBA finals?

You’ll find no reasonable list out there that has Russ in a top 25 all time. ESPNs recent panel had him in the mid 60s.

I’m not sure what’s worse, having Westbrook in a top 25 all time or not having Durant. Im leaning Westbrook.

I admit my ignorance. Please explain to me how easy it is for someone to be a "stat chaser" in regards to rebounds and assists.

You are really asking me how many finals he's been to? I believe the correct answer is 1. How many more Finals do you feel he should have gotten to and who else was on his team/s that you feel he should have gotten to the Finals with?

I don't feel he's been such an "awful" shooter for his career but I can agree he hasn't been a good one.
43.8% FG and 30.6% 3pt. Heck, James Harden is a career 44.2% shooter.
Russ is not an awful "scorer".

You're right, I probably won't find a "reasonable list" that has Russ in the top 25 but I am confident I'll find a "reasonable list" that mentions the things I did, and makes a valid ARGUMENT on why I and others feel you and others highly underrate him.

I do agree with you that having Westbrook in a top 25 is worse than not having Durant in a top 25.
I would probably put Durant in my top 25 and not have Westbrook in my top 25.
All that being said, I'll continue to say I FEEL Durant is overrated and Russ is underrated.

It's not easy. He's talented. But he does it at a detriment to his squad.
He would get a rebound or two a game from posts on his own team giving up on missed free throw rebounds.
If he's an assist or two away from his double/triple double, he'll keep the ball and not shoot and try and find the open guy instead of just playing the possession out.

He's a turnover machine.
He is the career leader in turnovers per game.
He is third all time in total turnovers in a career.

43.8% is not good.
30.6% for a guard that you want to put in the top 25 is awful.

Harden does not sniff my top 25 either. He fits right in there with Westbrook.

Harden is a wannabe. he wants to be a legend. He's not.

pdub wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 9:25 am It's not easy. He's talented. But he does it at a detriment to his squad.
He would get a rebound or two a game from posts on his own team giving up on missed free throw rebounds.
If he's an assist or two away from his double/triple double, he'll keep the ball and not shoot and try and find the open guy instead of just playing the possession out.

He's a turnover machine.
He is the career leader in turnovers per game.
He is third all time in total turnovers in a career.

43.8% is not good.
30.6% for a guard that you want to put in the top 25 is awful.

Harden does not sniff my top 25 either. He fits right in there with Westbrook.

Thanks for the respectful response.
Yes, he is the career leader in turnovers per game. Nothing to be proud of but.....
According to Statmuse, Magic is 2nd close behind. Then you have Isiah Thomas in 3rd. LeBron is 8th. Durant is 14th. Bird is 19th.

Magic has 5 NBA titles. He has 3 Finals MVPs.
LeBron has 4. 4 Finals MVPs. He is also the league leader in points scored.
When Westbrook made it to the Finals that one time he shot 13 percent from 3. His team lost in 5.

Durant and Bird have 1 fewer TO/PG than Westbrook.



Your counter punch whiffs.

pdub wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 9:25 am

Harden does not sniff my top 25 either. He fits right in there with Westbrook.

This.

pdub wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 10:37 am Magic has 5 NBA titles. He has 3 Finals MVPs.
LeBron has 4. 4 Finals MVPs. He is also the league leader in points scored.
When Westbrook made it to the Finals that one time he shot 13 percent from 3. His team lost in 5.

Durant and Bird have 1 fewer TO/PG than Westbrook.



Your counter punch whiffs.

It's not a counter punch.
It's you pointing out he is #1 all time in turnovers per game and then pointing out some of the greatest to ever play (and guys you - and I - definitely feel are better than him) are close behind on the all time list.
You tell me how many offensive possessions each guy had per game. It's very possible Russ had less but it's also possible he had more. I don't know.
Yes, Durant and Bird have 1 fewer TO/PG than Westbrook. Again, I am wondering how many seconds/minutes Westbrook had the ball in his possession per game vs. Durant and Bird.

Yes, Westbrook shot 13% from 3 in the Finals.
According to Basketball-Reference.....
You know what the Finals MVP shot? 18.8% Yes, definitely better, but far from good.
Westbrook shot 43.3% for the series. You know what DWade shot? 43.5%. Harden shot 37.5%.
The Thunder didn't lose the series because Russ played poorly nearly as much as they lost the series because Harden played poorly.
P.S. "Turnover machine" Westbrook had 11 turnovers in the series. Durant had 19. LeBron had 19,

"...Again, I am wondering how many seconds/minutes Westbrook had the ball in his possession per game..."

But this, in Westbrook's case, isn't a feature as often as others - more often it's a bug.
Dude is a usage hog and it's why he doesn't fit well on teams.

If I wasn’t sitting on the toilet right now I would respond with a thumbs up emoji. Not sure if this will work.


Thank you for engaging me with some respectful Russ West banter!

Back to the NBA…..

I think Wemby is better than Embiid.

does shitting make emojis not work?

TDub wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 2:23 pm does shitting make emojis not work?

Fantastic question! I'm not sure why but I was going to post a photo of an emoji. I wasn't being resourceful in doing as such and then realized the emojis on my phone might work/translate to my post on here.

In other NBA news......

The Nike city edition uniforms. Majority I don't like. Some are horrendous and embarrassing. A couple are kind of nice. Don't look at the photo of all of them together. Look at the individual photos.

https://andscape.com/galleries/nike-unv ... ?view=list





Steph shrunk!
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzL3rDgO ... _copy_link



Jason Kidd isn't coaching tonight due to a non-covid illness.
Is it any coincidence I saw his daughter posted this a few hours ago?