America Failed

[BiggDick]

Thanks for the reassurance...now if we could only get DC to do the same.

[pdub]

https://kamalaharris.com/issues/

"Healthcare! This one's huge."
5th one down.

"climate change."
10th one down.

"reproductive rights"
11th one down.

"also things like immigration, weed, voter rights, Citizens United, any number of anything for which an actual vision was an opportunity to have popular appeal more so than some status quo."

Read up.

good finds!

5th one down..."Expanding and strengthening the Affordable Care Act" sounds more like "trying to brag about a plan...from 15 years and 4 administrations ago" more so than it does her 2020 campaign idea of single payer/medicare for all

10th one down...if the Inflation Reduction Act really is doing the great things she says it is, she should have campaigned on it harder, and/or considered maybe it wasn't as great as she says it is

11th one down...she basically punts the issue of reproductive rights to the states and congress. Wish she did a better job of articulating her plan for getting congress and/or the states on board.

Good for her for finally putting some platform issues on her website, tho. When Biden stepped down and she got the nod I remember criticism that she did NOT have any real platform on her site, for several weeks after her effective nomination.

And you wonder why I think you've taken the new Illy role.

[pdub]

I do…if combined with Biden realizing he wasn’t fit for a second term.

Would more time have helped break through the nonreality bubble? Maybe. I could also see an argument that a blitz campaign like Harris’s would have been the better strategy anyway.

I think ultimately this was about the specific timing of our exit from high inflation, combined with the capture of our information ecosystem (and the durability of some human-nature ugliness in our instincts).

Harris was one of the least popular choices in the Dem primary in 2020.

They ignored that. And it mattered.

Again, it had to be Harris at the point it became Harris. But, it should have never gotten that far. We spent several years pretending Biden was going to be good to go for a 2nd term. When in reality, he wasn't.

I think we'll be fine. We survived Trump's first term. We will survive his second term too.

I agree with most of this.
I'm only like 25% positive we'll be fine.

[BiggDick]

https://kamalaharris.com/issues/

"Healthcare! This one's huge."
5th one down.

"climate change."
10th one down.

"reproductive rights"
11th one down.

"also things like immigration, weed, voter rights, Citizens United, any number of anything for which an actual vision was an opportunity to have popular appeal more so than some status quo."

Read up.

good finds!

5th one down..."Expanding and strengthening the Affordable Care Act" sounds more like "trying to brag about a plan...from 15 years and 4 administrations ago" more so than it does her 2020 campaign idea of single payer/medicare for all

10th one down...if the Inflation Reduction Act really is doing the great things she says it is, she should have campaigned on it harder, and/or considered maybe it wasn't as great as she says it is

11th one down...she basically punts the issue of reproductive rights to the states and congress. Wish she did a better job of articulating her plan for getting congress and/or the states on board.

Good for her for finally putting some platform issues on her website, tho. When Biden stepped down and she got the nod I remember criticism that she did NOT have any real platform on her site, for several weeks after her effective nomination.

And you wonder why I think you've taken the new Illy role.

I get it, I'm ill-annoying.

There's still a difference between discussing (and evenn simply disagreeing upon) the subject matter at hand and resorting to relentless antagonistic putdowns like "you're a dumbshit with dumbshit views you dumbshit little dumbshit"

but, whatever.

Pols bored foray over.

Enjoy the cesspool.

If anyone needs me I'll be at the sat shack.

[pdub]

"Hey, Kamala could have campaigned on these issues."
Shows proof that she did.
"OK, but not the exact way I wanted her to campaign about those issues!"

[Sparko]

I don’t think this result really says anything about the Ds or their candidates.

I think the election was a mirror, and the reflection showed more people that think one way than people that think another way.

Because I am a person that thinks that other way, I think this is the wrong result.

But, it’s the result.

That is how I see it too. We have folks who will light a match to inspect the fuel and cannot be talked out of it. This is a dangerous time The cruelty at the root of this will play out.

[jfish26]

I do…if combined with Biden realizing he wasn’t fit for a second term.

Would more time have helped break through the nonreality bubble? Maybe. I could also see an argument that a blitz campaign like Harris’s would have been the better strategy anyway.

I think ultimately this was about the specific timing of our exit from high inflation, combined with the capture of our information ecosystem (and the durability of some human-nature ugliness in our instincts).

Harris was one of the least popular choices in the Dem primary in 2020.

They ignored that. And it mattered.

Again, it had to be Harris at the point it became Harris. But, it should have never gotten that far. We spent several years pretending Biden was going to be good to go for a 2nd term. When in reality, he wasn't.

I think we'll be fine. We survived Trump's first term. We will survive his second term too.

I just don't have a lot of optimism that a different election strategy or process would have yielded a different result.

Trump (as an avatar) is a queen; changing a knight for a rook for a bishop just changes the shape of how the queen makes use of its advantages.

Each side had an opportunity to take the queen off the chessboard. Each side chose not to do so.

Presumably, in each case, because the calculation was made that the short-term political costs of severing Trump from our body politic were more important than the long-term structural benefits of doing so.

[jfish26]

I don’t think this result really says anything about the Ds or their candidates.

I think the election was a mirror, and the reflection showed more people that think one way than people that think another way.

Because I am a person that thinks that other way, I think this is the wrong result.

But, it’s the result.

That is how I see it too. We have folks who will light a match to inspect the fuel and cannot be talked out of it. This is a dangerous time The cruelty at the root of this will play out.

I also think - and to be clear, there is no evidence that this was outcome-determinative as to last night - that we're now in a situation where we know, out loud and with certainty, that Russia interfered with the administration of an American election.

And will not only suffer no consequences, but in fact will be rewarded for it.

[pdub]

I think a new voice at the right time would have made a difference, no doubt in my mind.
Harris was attached to Biden and what many Trump voters associated with the problems they had.

[TDub]

we don't really talk politics much in our house, it's just not something we do at length.

My daughter was very excited that a woman might be president and even the minor increases in confidence that gave her was interesting to watch.

Now, instead, she most assuredly will lose federal rights at some level ranging from minor to very impactful.

If for nothing else this makes me sad.

[pdub]

America failed our women.

[twocoach]

Democrats need to identify the straight, white male that they want to be their next candidate. Others need not apply because that is all this nation will put in the White House in my lifetime.

[jfish26]

we don't really talk politics much in our house, it's just not something we do at length.

My daughter was very excited that a woman might be president and even the minor increases in confidence that gave her was interesting to watch.

Now, instead, she most assuredly will lose federal rights at some level ranging from minor to very impactful.

If for nothing else this makes me sad.

Sadness is certainly my primary emotion this morning, also. I have to go drop my grade schooler off at her bus in a moment, and I'm filled with sadness over how much smaller America will be for her than it was for me.

[DeletedUser]

"Hey, Kamala could have campaigned on these issues."
Shows proof that she did.
"OK, but not the exact way I wanted her to campaign about those issues!"

This.

[pdub]

Democrats need to identify the straight, white male that they want to be their next candidate. Others need not apply because that is all this nation will put in the White House in my lifetime.

[DeletedUser]

Democrats need to identify the straight, white male that they want to be their next candidate. Others need not apply because that is all this nation will put in the White House in my lifetime.

Meh.

We had 8 years of Obama.

There were women candidates and black candidates that would have done better than Kamala. Just like they did in the 2020 primary.

[TDub]

current estimates show that somewhere between 15-20 Million/i] people who voted for Biden decided to not vote at all this year.

When people are concerned in large part about economics....and the general thought is that the economy is bad (people in general don't understand economics) the incumbent doesn't perform well. They should've distanced themselves from the incumbent instead of leaning into it

[Sparko]

The real answer is that the propagandized right wing media machine, eating us alive sonce Limbaugh, is very effective amplifying disinformation. There is rarely a minute in any day where they stick to facts. We were beaten as a nation by the sheer torrent of lies. People earnestly believed night was day.

[BiggDick]

current estimates show that somewhere between 15-20 Million/i] people who voted for Biden decided to not vote at all this year.

When people are concerned in large part about economics....and the general thought is that the economy is bad (people in general don't understand economics) the incumbent doesn't perform well. They should've distanced themselves from the incumbent instead of leaning into it

^^^^

like I was saying.

Now I know I said foray over but the sat shack isn't even open yet so at least lemme give it til lunchtime or so. (who says you can't have a bucket at 8 in the morning? Maybe the fascists already won)

Besides, I'm mostly trying to agree, which should come across as less ill-annoying anyway, and also to seek clarification on stuff that was subsequently said

[BiggDick]

"Hey, Kamala could have campaigned on these issues."
Shows proof that she did.
"OK, but not the exact way I wanted her to campaign about those issues!"

This.

I mean, yes, this.

Maybe it needed more than the lip service given. Again, she's the incumbent status quo candidate, and as such, she's gonna be tethered to the incumbent status quo...unless she doe a helluva job articulating otherwise.

But, back to PDub's point...if we can reasonably assume that is proof that she campaigned on those issues, then I suppose the bigger problem for her is just a lack of likability, or some other less policy issue and more personality sorta stuff, then?