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Re: Let’s have a war!
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 9:56 am
by twocoach
jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 9:54 am
twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 9:50 am
jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 9:48 am
But, what's the acceptable degree of risk in the case you're wrong? A 1% chance of you being wrong? 0.1%? 0.00001%?
The problem is there's no coming back from being wrong. At best, you're looking at hundreds of thousands dead and a new world order that will take at least the rest of our lives to sort.
There is ZERO risk in me being wrong because I do not make any decisions that have any impact to the situation. I assume that the decision makers have a better feel for the risk and are acting accordingly.
Oh Jesus Christ. Of course I didn't mean
you.
But the point stands. The EU in particular should not have much risk tolerance on this issue...so, yes, Ukraine might need to give away some things that it really should not have to give away.
Russia can barely figure out how to get gasoline into their tanks on a battlefield. My guess is that the reality of how prepared to launch a full scale global nuclear war is not as scary as our imagination makes it.
Re: Let’s have a war!
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 9:57 am
by jfish26
twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 9:56 am
jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 9:54 am
twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 9:50 am
There is ZERO risk in me being wrong because I do not make any decisions that have any impact to the situation. I assume that the decision makers have a better feel for the risk and are acting accordingly.
Oh Jesus Christ. Of course I didn't mean
you.
But the point stands. The EU in particular should not have much risk tolerance on this issue...so, yes, Ukraine might need to give away some things that it really should not have to give away.
Russia can barely figure out how to get gasoline into their tanks on a battlefield. My guess is that the reality of how prepared to launch a full scale global nuclear war is not as scary as our imagination makes it.
The math here doesn't check out.
Re: Let’s have a war!
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:01 am
by twocoach
jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 9:57 am
twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 9:56 am
jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 9:54 am
Oh Jesus Christ. Of course I didn't mean
you.
But the point stands. The EU in particular should not have much risk tolerance on this issue...so, yes, Ukraine might need to give away some things that it really should not have to give away.
Russia can barely figure out how to get gasoline into their tanks on a battlefield. My guess is that the reality of how prepared to launch a full scale global nuclear war is not as scary as our imagination makes it.
The math here doesn't check out.
It's honestly probably just the way that my already stressed to the maximum point brain is handling this. I am just trying to get through the day without driving my car into the river. I can't handle worrying about nuclear war right now.
Re: Let’s have a war!
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:07 am
by MICHHAWK
i worry way more about my spring hockey team than i do nuclear war.
Re: Let’s have a war!
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:11 am
by japhy
MICHHAWK wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:07 am
i worry way more about my spring hockey team than i do nuclear war.
Are you trying to make the point that annihilation of half the human population on earth has an upside?
Re: Let’s have a war!
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:14 am
by Qusdahl
No way a nuclear war could possibly interfere with spring hockey league!
…well, unless like one of the teams gets vaporized, in which case they’d prob have to forfeit the next match, I guess.
Re: Let’s have a war!
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:15 am
by jhawks99
twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:01 am
jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 9:57 am
twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 9:56 am
Russia can barely figure out how to get gasoline into their tanks on a battlefield. My guess is that the reality of how prepared to launch a full scale global nuclear war is not as scary as our imagination makes it.
The math here doesn't check out.
It's honestly probably just the way that my already stressed to the maximum point brain is handling this. I am just trying to get through the day without driving my car into the river. I can't handle worrying about nuclear war right now.
Take care Twocoach. I don't know what's going on, but I hope it's better soon.
Re: Let’s have a war!
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:17 am
by MICHHAWK
Qusdahl wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:14 am
No way a nuclear war could possibly interfere with spring hockey league!
…well, unless like one of the teams gets vaporized, in which case they’d prob have to forfeit the next match, I guess.
you called a hockey game a "match." you just keep bringing the stupid.
did you have a stroke about a month ago. is one of your eyes droopy.
Re: Let’s have a war!
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:22 am
by Qusdahl
and boom goes the dynamite.
Re: Let’s have a war!
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:22 am
by twocoach
jhawks99 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:15 am
twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:01 am
jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 9:57 am
The math here doesn't check out.
It's honestly probably just the way that my already stressed to the maximum point brain is handling this. I am just trying to get through the day without driving my car into the river. I can't handle worrying about nuclear war right now.
Take care Twocoach. I don't know what's going on, but I hope it's better soon.
Appreciated. Sometimes you just look up and find yourself in one of those cluster events where 8 things all go wrong around the same time. Feels like it has been 2 years of it with no end in sight. Better days ahead I hope. At least I don't have to worry about my house getting hit by a Russian missile so I really shouldn't complain.
Re: Let’s have a war!
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:25 am
by jfish26
twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:22 am
jhawks99 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:15 am
twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:01 am
It's honestly probably just the way that my already stressed to the maximum point brain is handling this. I am just trying to get through the day without driving my car into the river. I can't handle worrying about nuclear war right now.
Take care Twocoach. I don't know what's going on, but I hope it's better soon.
Appreciated. Sometimes you just look up and find yourself in one of those cluster events where 8 things all go wrong around the same time. Feels like it has been 2 years of it with no end in sight. Better days ahead I hope.
Gallows humor, but I laughed yesterday at a tweet that was basically "I know we're only two episodes in, but Season 3 of
2020 sucks."
Re: Let’s have a war!
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:26 am
by Qusdahl
Wait, a moment of humanity in the war thread?
Turns out you guys are taking Putin’s side too!
Just kidding. Hang in there twocoach.
Re: Let’s have a war!
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:27 am
by twocoach
jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:25 am
twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:22 am
jhawks99 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:15 am
Take care Twocoach. I don't know what's going on, but I hope it's better soon.
Appreciated. Sometimes you just look up and find yourself in one of those cluster events where 8 things all go wrong around the same time. Feels like it has been 2 years of it with no end in sight. Better days ahead I hope.
Gallows humor, but I laughed yesterday at a tweet that was basically "I know we're only two episodes in, but Season 3 of
2020 sucks."
We should at least get scale pay for being background actors in the worst reality TV show ever.
Re: Let’s have a war!
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:30 am
by Mjl
Way out for Putin - Ukraine will announce a crackdown on Nazism and bigotry, enacting anti-Nazi laws similar to Germany's. Putin can say he helped destroy hatred and bigotry.
Fuck giving him Donbas, that's rewarding him for killing people.
Re: Let’s have a war!
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:34 am
by defixione
twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 9:56 am
Russia can barely figure out how to get gasoline into their tanks on a battlefield. My guess is that the reality of how prepared to launch a full scale global nuclear war is not as scary as our imagination makes it.
Or scarier than we can imagine.
Re: Let’s have a war!
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:44 am
by Qusdahl
After its formation in 1949 with twelve founding members, NATO grew by including Greece and Turkey in 1952 and West Germany in 1955, and then later Spain in 1982. After the Cold War ended and Germany reunited in 1990, the unified country joined the alliance after U.S. Secretary of State John Baker assuring Mikhail Gorbachev, President of the Soviet Union that there would not be a further expansion eastward.[1] [2]
In 1999, Poland, Hungary, and the Czech Republic joined NATO, amid much debate within the organization and Russian opposition. Another expansion came with the accession of seven Central and Eastern European countries: Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia, and Slovenia. These nations were invited to begin membership talks during the 2002 Prague summit, and joined NATO shortly before the 2004 Istanbul summit. Albania and Croatia joined on 1 April 2009, prior to the 2009 Strasbourg–Kehl summit. The most recent member states to be added to NATO are Montenegro on 5 June 2017 and North Macedonia on 27 March 2020.
As of 2021, NATO officially recognizes three aspiring members: Bosnia and Herzegovina, Georgia, and Ukraine.[3] Future expansion is a topic of debate in several countries outside the alliance, like Sweden, Finland, and Serbia. In countries like Ukraine, support or opposition to membership is tied to ethnic and nationalist ideologies. The incorporation of former Eastern Bloc and Soviet Union countries has been a cause of increased tension between NATO countries and Russia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlargement_of_NATO
Re: Let’s have a war!
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:45 am
by twocoach
defixione wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:34 am
twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 9:56 am
Russia can barely figure out how to get gasoline into their tanks on a battlefield. My guess is that the reality of how prepared to launch a full scale global nuclear war is not as scary as our imagination makes it.
Or scarier than we can imagine.
I have a pretty vivid imagination so I try to just not let this one get in my mental spin cycle. Stunning neglect and a lack of safety measures would not surprise me at all. As I said, now that the government has been privatized by mobsters, the war machine is being bled for every drop of worth that can be squeezed from it.
We've had an attack on our nation's capital by our own citizens and a Russian invasion of a neighboring country in the last 13 months. Crazy town is getting normal.
Re: Let’s have a war!
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:50 am
by Mjl
Qusdahl wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:44 am
After its formation in 1949 with twelve founding members, NATO grew by including Greece and Turkey in 1952 and West Germany in 1955, and then later Spain in 1982. After the Cold War ended and Germany reunited in 1990, the unified country joined the alliance after U.S. Secretary of State John Baker assuring Mikhail Gorbachev, President of the Soviet Union that there would not be a further expansion eastward.[1] [2]
In 1999, Poland, Hungary, and the Czech Republic joined NATO, amid much debate within the organization and Russian opposition. Another expansion came with the accession of seven Central and Eastern European countries: Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia, and Slovenia. These nations were invited to begin membership talks during the 2002 Prague summit, and joined NATO shortly before the 2004 Istanbul summit. Albania and Croatia joined on 1 April 2009, prior to the 2009 Strasbourg–Kehl summit. The most recent member states to be added to NATO are Montenegro on 5 June 2017 and North Macedonia on 27 March 2020.
As of 2021, NATO officially recognizes three aspiring members: Bosnia and Herzegovina, Georgia, and Ukraine.[3] Future expansion is a topic of debate in several countries outside the alliance, like Sweden, Finland, and Serbia. In countries like Ukraine, support or opposition to membership is tied to ethnic and nationalist ideologies. The incorporation of former Eastern Bloc and Soviet Union countries has been a cause of increased tension between NATO countries and Russia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlargement_of_NATO
Point being?...
Re: Let’s have a war!
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:51 am
by Qusdahl
for real fuck Putin.
but I think that's a critical piece of context. I think what's freaking some of you guys out is, I view this clusterfuck as having blame to go around, rather than just taking a side.
and by the way, fuck Putin.
but since this country's at least cool enough to let me say it - fuck Biden too. And Trump. And Obama and W and Cheney all the presidents who have perpetuated the capitalist imperial war machine. whoa, for the first time in this thread, I actually felt kinda patriotic!
I feel awful for the people of Ukraine. But I think perhaps the only thing worse than having their country torn apart by one foreign power's meddling, is two foreign powers's meddling.
what was the situation there pre-14 coup? was there all this infighting? or did that come to be, or be escalated, by us feeding them weapons and training? It's prob some chicken and egg thing.
also, fuck Putin.
fuck the MIC too. To them it's not war, it's not evil, it's not loosing friends and loved ones senselessly; it's just another dollar.
and I dunno much about NATO, but is there any good reason not to say fuck them too?
also fuck mizzou
ok I'm done.
Re: Let’s have a war!
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:54 am
by Mjl
If you're so antiwar and anti-imperialist, why are you the only one here defending the nation invading a sovereign nation while blaming the countries using sanctions in response?
Stop saying you're not supporting Russia. That's like saying you aren't supporting Chauvin and then go on and on about George Floyd's criminal history. Attacking the victim only when they are being attacked is supporting the aggressor.