Kansas Crimson

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 9:30 am and not something more sinister.

such as?

MICHHAWK wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 9:35 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 9:30 am and not something more sinister.

such as?

I don't know. It's just strange to me that people could be so angry about someone else making money for something that is not harmful to society at large.

Other than the tired "everything was better in my day" argument, is there a good argument why other people making money is this awful thing? What are the reasons that people choose to think this is so bad?

some of us are going to need a little extra time making peace with this bold new world.

I could rename all the reasons that have already been laid out in prior threads but I think the core of it is because college basketball won't be unique anymore and it used to be. And, in the end, college may have nothing at all to do with it.

The side commentary ( sinister ) is just absolute garbage.

MICHHAWK wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 9:51 am some of us are going to need a little extra time making peace with this bold new world.

And that's very fair.

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 9:51 am And, in the end, college may have nothing at all to do with it.

i believe there is some truth to what you say. unfortunately. we shall see.

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 9:51 am
but I think the core of it is because college basketball won't be unique anymore and it used to be. And, in the end, college may have nothing at all to do with it.

It'll be unqiue, but in a different way.

My dad is old school like you when it comes to all this. Wanted it to be "students" playing on the school's baskstball team.

Over the last 30+ years it has become less and less about school...and more and more about sports/$$$.

Players who couldn't apply and get accepted as students to a given school, now get to take a few easy classes, and use it as a pit stop for the pros.

If we could go back to the days where it was which school had the students who were best at basketball a lot of people like you and my dad would be happy/more happy. But it's turned into a business, and the people in power make too much money to ever let it revert back to a more amateur/high school basketball type situation where it's school 1st and sports 2nd.

I don't think there is anything sinister behind your stance. But when coaches and ADs are making millions and that doesn't seem to bother people the same way, I think that is when it becomes a problematic stance for some.

If they could take all the money out of it then it could be amateur again. But I don't think it is right for only portions of it to be able to get rich.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 9:41 am

MICHHAWK wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 9:35 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 9:30 am and not something more sinister.

such as?

I don't know. It's just strange to me that people could be so angry about someone else making money for something that is not harmful to society at large.

Other than the tired "everything was better in my day" argument, is there a good argument why other people making money is this awful thing? What are the reasons that people choose to think this is so bad?

I think there's some sort of "not everything needs to be just about money" argument in there, which is valid too

but to pick and choose college sports, as if college sports of all things should be singled out, to the exclusion of not fussing about all sorts of other things that are so just about money, sigh.

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 9:26 am "That's just un-'Merican."

Hence, possibly, the problem.
$$$$$ over everything.
Where's Qusdahl?

now do healthcare!

or housing!

or the military industrial complex!

ousdahl wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:21 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 9:41 am

MICHHAWK wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 9:35 am

such as?

I don't know. It's just strange to me that people could be so angry about someone else making money for something that is not harmful to society at large.

Other than the tired "everything was better in my day" argument, is there a good argument why other people making money is this awful thing? What are the reasons that people choose to think this is so bad?

I think there's some sort of "not everything needs to be just about money" argument in there, which is valid too

I agree in a vacuum. The issue, though, is that the money is already there and has been for a long time. We, the viewers, and with the help of the powers that be, made the players valuable, and it's not something that can logically be undone. The unfairness of it all was that the value was created, it's here to stay, but the distribution was wildly in favor of the powers to the detriment of the players.

So the whole "not everything needs to be just about money" sounds nice but we are so far removed from the point in time where that is even relevant.

"So the whole "not everything needs to be just about money" sounds nice but we are so far removed from the point in time where that is even relevant."

It's too late to reverse the damage we've done to the planet.
Fuck it, amiright?
Don't mind me, I gotta dump this left over fertilizer in the river.

…sounds nice but we are so far removed from the point in time where that is even relevant.

this sounds awful familiar…

And not directed at you ous, but to your point: if at any time anyone has even a scintilla of sympathy for the schools/athletic departments, remember that in the past 10ish years we have seen basically every athletic department in the country express a desire to unravel 100's of years of tradition and rivalry to join conferences, many of which have no geographic ties to the school, all in the name of money which created a worse experience for both fans and players.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:30 am

ousdahl wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:21 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 9:41 am

I don't know. It's just strange to me that people could be so angry about someone else making money for something that is not harmful to society at large.

Other than the tired "everything was better in my day" argument, is there a good argument why other people making money is this awful thing? What are the reasons that people choose to think this is so bad?

I think there's some sort of "not everything needs to be just about money" argument in there, which is valid too

I agree in a vacuum. The issue, though, is that the money is already there and has been for a long time. We, the viewers, and with the help of the powers that be, made the players valuable, and it's not something that can logically be undone. The unfairness of it all was that the value was created, it's here to stay, but the distribution was wildly in favor of the powers to the detriment of the players.

So the whole "not everything needs to be just about money" sounds nice but we are so far removed from the point in time where that is even relevant.

Hard for me to justify paying Bill Self 10million a year to coach at KU, and then think Nijel Pack should be prevented from making $800k in NIL (from a non-school entity) as a player at Miami.

Self isn't coaching at Kansas due to love of the game or love of the school. Even though he loves the game and loves the school.

Why doesn't Self making money to be at KU bother people?

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:34 am And not directed at you ous, but to your point: if at any time anyone has even a scintilla of sympathy for the schools/athletic departments, remember that in the past 10ish years we have seen basically every athletic department in the country express a desire to unravel 100's of years of tradition and rivalry to join conferences, many of which have no geographic ties to the school, all in the name of money which created a worse experience for both fans and players.

Yes, this is part of the whole distancing/ruining of the sport.

While college is/are businesses, the core of the schools should not be about maxing profits.

KUTradition wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:33 am …sounds nice but we are so far removed from the point in time where that is even relevant.

this sounds awful familiar…

Not sure what you are referencing.

I just think the "not everything has to be about money" is not really germane to the NIL topic. At the very least, not at this point.

"Why doesn't Self making money to be at KU bother people?"

We've had this discussion in F the NCAA thread but while I don't agree at all with the loads of money he is making ( and that's linked to the commercialization of the college product ), I link it with a professor who is esteemed and can/will stay at the University, bettering it's students. Money should go into the schools ( staff/facilities ) for the betterment of current and future attendees not into the pockets of a couple individuals ( my opinion ).

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:39 am "Why doesn't Self making money to be at KU bother people?"

We've had this discussion in F the NCAA thread but while I don't agree at all with the loads of money he is making ( and that's linked to the commercialization of the college product ), I link it with a professor who is esteemed and can/will stay at the University, bettering it's students. Money should go into the schools for the betterment of current and future attendees not into the pockets of a couple individuals ( my opinion ).

Self betters far fewer students each year than an esteemed professor. He impacts/betters about 15ish "students" per year (and there is less turnover), meanwhile an esteemed professor touches hundreds maybe thousands per year.

There are about 20,000 students at KU? There are around 15 basketball players.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:38 am

KUTradition wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:33 am …sounds nice but we are so far removed from the point in time where that is even relevant.

this sounds awful familiar…

Not sure what you are referencing.

I just think the "not everything has to be about money" is not really germane to the NIL topic. At the very least, not at this point.

your response is awful similar to those that Ousie has gotten about the Ukraine war

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:34 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:30 am

ousdahl wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:21 am

I think there's some sort of "not everything needs to be just about money" argument in there, which is valid too

I agree in a vacuum. The issue, though, is that the money is already there and has been for a long time. We, the viewers, and with the help of the powers that be, made the players valuable, and it's not something that can logically be undone. The unfairness of it all was that the value was created, it's here to stay, but the distribution was wildly in favor of the powers to the detriment of the players.

So the whole "not everything needs to be just about money" sounds nice but we are so far removed from the point in time where that is even relevant.

Hard for me to justify paying Bill Self 10million a year to coach at KU, and then think Nijel Pack should be prevented from making $800k in NIL (from a non-school entity) as a player at Miami.

Self isn't coaching at Kansas due to love of the game or love of the school. Even though he loves the game and loves the school.

Why doesn't Self making money to be at KU bother people?

People were always under the wrong impression that it was the coach that drove the value of the sport. Whether that was willful ignorance or not, what is clear is that that is not the case.

And, of course, the nuance is that Bill Self's $10m is coming from KUAI and adidas (via KUAI). Nijel Pack's is coming from an approved third party that specifically wants a piece of Nijel Pack. I don't see how you can morally keep the latter from happening.