Kansas Crimson

DeletedUser wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 10:49 am

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 10:36 am

DeletedUser wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 10:14 am

Yes. He probably has peaked. Physically and skill wise that's reasonable to conclude (although I think he's a better shooter now than be was a year or 2 ago). But his understanding of the game, our offense/defense, and what helps us win games is invaluable in an era with so much roster turnover year to year.

This is driving me nuts. Twice in ten days we looked like we'd never heard of zone defense. This is NOT the time to be doing the "understanding of the game" thing for a guy who has now played more than 3,500 minutes at KU.

Why doesn't KJ get any heat when we talk about zone defense effectiveness against us? He can't shoot a lick or space the zone. He is more of a problem when facing zone defenses than DH imo.

But people have their favorites and people have the scapegoats.

This is still better than debating politics. Nice to see this area of the board with some action.

you can bust a zone by shooting your way out of it ir by passing your way out of it with good side to side swings and off ball movement.

KJ moves without the ball seeking out empty space as well as anybody we've had the last decade. He gets those open lane hammers because he seeks them out and knows where the space is going to be.

TDub wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 10:52 am

DeletedUser wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 10:49 am

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 10:36 am

This is driving me nuts. Twice in ten days we looked like we'd never heard of zone defense. This is NOT the time to be doing the "understanding of the game" thing for a guy who has now played more than 3,500 minutes at KU.

Why doesn't KJ get any heat when we talk about zone defense effectiveness against us? He can't shoot a lick or space the zone. He is more of a problem when facing zone defenses than DH imo.

But people have their favorites and people have the scapegoats.

This is still better than debating politics. Nice to see this area of the board with some action.

you can bust a zone by shooting your way out of it ir by passing your way out of it with good side to side swings and off ball movement.

KJ moves without the ball seeking out empty space as well as anybody we've had the last decade. He gets those open lane hammers because he seeks them out and knows where the space is going to be.

He does all those things very well.

He has not done them well against zone defense iirc.

(Not finger pointing at Kj, none of our team has done well against zone)

DeletedUser wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 10:49 am

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 10:36 am

DeletedUser wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 10:14 am

Yes. He probably has peaked. Physically and skill wise that's reasonable to conclude (although I think he's a better shooter now than be was a year or 2 ago). But his understanding of the game, our offense/defense, and what helps us win games is invaluable in an era with so much roster turnover year to year.

This is driving me nuts. Twice in ten days we looked like we'd never heard of zone defense. This is NOT the time to be doing the "understanding of the game" thing for a guy who has now played more than 3,500 minutes at KU.

Why doesn't KJ get any heat when we talk about zone defense effectiveness against us? He can't shoot a lick or space the zone. He is more of a problem when facing zone defenses than DH imo.

But people have their favorites and people have the scapegoats.

This is still better than debating politics. Nice to see this area of the board with some action.

Adams is a better player than Harris right now, is part of it. Another is that Adams has about half the career minutes Harris has.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 11:00 am

DeletedUser wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 10:49 am

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 10:36 am

This is driving me nuts. Twice in ten days we looked like we'd never heard of zone defense. This is NOT the time to be doing the "understanding of the game" thing for a guy who has now played more than 3,500 minutes at KU.

Why doesn't KJ get any heat when we talk about zone defense effectiveness against us? He can't shoot a lick or space the zone. He is more of a problem when facing zone defenses than DH imo.

But people have their favorites and people have the scapegoats.

This is still better than debating politics. Nice to see this area of the board with some action.

Adams is a better player than Harris right now, is part of it. Another is that Adams has about half the career minutes Harris has.

All true.

Another is Adams appearance (strong, dunks, *cool things*).

Another is Adams story.

DH is definitely our 4th best player.

it’s amazing to me y’all are still talking about offense when one of the conference bottom feeders just hung 91 on us

jfc

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 10:51 am

randylahey wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 10:41 am

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 10:33 am

Hey, I liked my coffee. Don't do this.

A few years ago I never thought I'd say this, but there is a reason other coaches call him "coach self on the floor" and his assist numbers don't lie. Aaron miles is technically a Roiboi. He's the one guy I'd consider

Yes sherron, frank, Dotson, devonte, Russell Robinson even, could be considered. Better players, but I don't think better floor generals

He's a nice player.

But the assists are partly because he's a nice player, and partly because he plays 35 minutes/game for loaded teams and is openly, outwardly, obviously afraid to try to score.

He averaged 6.2 assists last season, 6.8 so far this year. The only other players self has ever had to put up assists numbers like that were senior devonte graham and Aaron miles. In fact the percentage of college guards for any school to average 6 assists a game is pretty low

Not sure why you are dismissing it as a participation trophy for just happening to be there

The guy clearly has elite court vision and understanding of the game

People also forget that this is a team that only returned 3 scholarship players... we aren't going to be a perfectly cohesive unit. That's part of why zones have been effective. Add in 4man that isn't a shooter, a pg who isn't a zone breaker, and a 5th player who is still kind of lost, and zones are probably the most effective defense to throw at us right now


But. If teams keep doing it we will adjust and come tourney time that'll make us that harder of a match up

randylahey wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 11:56 am

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 10:51 am

randylahey wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 10:41 am

A few years ago I never thought I'd say this, but there is a reason other coaches call him "coach self on the floor" and his assist numbers don't lie. Aaron miles is technically a Roiboi. He's the one guy I'd consider

Yes sherron, frank, Dotson, devonte, Russell Robinson even, could be considered. Better players, but I don't think better floor generals

He's a nice player.

But the assists are partly because he's a nice player, and partly because he plays 35 minutes/game for loaded teams and is openly, outwardly, obviously afraid to try to score.

He averaged 6.2 assists last season, 6.8 so far this year. The only other players self has ever had to put up assists numbers like that were senior devonte graham and Aaron miles. In fact the percentage of college guards for any school to average 6 assists a game is pretty low

Not sure why you are dismissing it as a participation trophy for just happening to be there

The guy clearly has elite court vision and understanding of the game

I think there should be a 30-day prohibition on praising a point guard's "elite court vision and understanding of the game" when his teams have melted down against shit competition twice in ten days.

Harris was 4-13 for 9 points combined in those 2 losses.
Did have 13 assists.

It is enough for me that WVU had their game of the year. It happens. KU played well enough to beat them nine out of 10 times.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 11:59 am

randylahey wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 11:56 am

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 10:51 am

He's a nice player.

But the assists are partly because he's a nice player, and partly because he plays 35 minutes/game for loaded teams and is openly, outwardly, obviously afraid to try to score.

He averaged 6.2 assists last season, 6.8 so far this year. The only other players self has ever had to put up assists numbers like that were senior devonte graham and Aaron miles. In fact the percentage of college guards for any school to average 6 assists a game is pretty low

Not sure why you are dismissing it as a participation trophy for just happening to be there

The guy clearly has elite court vision and understanding of the game

I think there should be a 30-day prohibition on praising a point guard's "elite court vision and understanding of the game" when his teams have melted down against shit competition twice in ten days.

And what about the coaches?

Not completely directed at you, but some of you blame DH when anything goes wrong and totally give passes to the coaches/players you like. It's transparent. When a poster never praises DH and always bashes DH after a loss whether it's deserved or not, then it's pretty obvious what's going on.


Or when someone says his assist numbers are from being on loaded teams and playing big minutes.....as if he didn't earn those minutes and contribute to those teams being loaded.

Which is funny because we haven't been all that "loaded". CB is about the only 1 from any of those teams doing a damn thing in the NBA.

DeletedUser wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 12:20 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 11:59 am

randylahey wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 11:56 am

He averaged 6.2 assists last season, 6.8 so far this year. The only other players self has ever had to put up assists numbers like that were senior devonte graham and Aaron miles. In fact the percentage of college guards for any school to average 6 assists a game is pretty low

Not sure why you are dismissing it as a participation trophy for just happening to be there

The guy clearly has elite court vision and understanding of the game

I think there should be a 30-day prohibition on praising a point guard's "elite court vision and understanding of the game" when his teams have melted down against shit competition twice in ten days.

And what about the coaches?

Not completely directed at you, but some of you blame DH when anything goes wrong and totally give passes to the coaches/players you like. It's transparent. When a poster never praises DH and always bashes DH after a loss whether it's deserved or not, then it's pretty obvious what's going on.


Or when someone says his assist numbers are from being on loaded teams and playing big minutes.....as if he didn't earn those minutes and contribute to those teams being loaded.

Which is funny because we haven't been all that "loaded". CB is about the only 1 from any of those teams doing a damn thing in the NBA.

Well, I think my posts after UCF make clear that I hold Bill primarily accountable. In BOTH of his roles.

I also don't think the NBA thing is all that instructive; Harris played with first team AAs in 2021-22 and 2022-23, and both Hunter and Kevin will make at LEAST third team this year.

illy, you should really stop conflating nba success with college success, or even more specifically with KU success

there’s obviously overlap, but they aren’t one and the same

KUTradition wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 12:30 pm illy, you should really stop conflating nba success with college success, or even more specifically with KU success

there’s obviously overlap, but they aren’t one and the same

When talking about teams being "loaded" I think it's relevant. We have been successful the last several years because we had cohesive teams. Not super "talented"/"loaded" rosters. And that cohesiveness has allowed guys who don't appear to have super high pro ceilings (Och, JW, KM and HD) to be all americans.

But yes, I agree. NBA success doesn't always (or even usually) matter. Och was better than CB in college, but it appears CB is better individually in the NBA.

I think the way to build the best college teams in this era of NIL and transfers is to have a few guys like DH and Kj who are multi year guys familiar with the system, mixed with talented transfers (KM and HD), and then throw in some 1 and done talent (like Gradey Dick).

Sorry, end rant.

DeletedUser wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 12:20 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 11:59 am

randylahey wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 11:56 am

He averaged 6.2 assists last season, 6.8 so far this year. The only other players self has ever had to put up assists numbers like that were senior devonte graham and Aaron miles. In fact the percentage of college guards for any school to average 6 assists a game is pretty low

Not sure why you are dismissing it as a participation trophy for just happening to be there

The guy clearly has elite court vision and understanding of the game

I think there should be a 30-day prohibition on praising a point guard's "elite court vision and understanding of the game" when his teams have melted down against shit competition twice in ten days.

And what about the coaches?

Not completely directed at you, but some of you blame DH when anything goes wrong and totally give passes to the coaches/players you like. It's transparent. When a poster never praises DH and always bashes DH after a loss whether it's deserved or not, then it's pretty obvious what's going on.


Or when someone says his assist numbers are from being on loaded teams and playing big minutes.....as if he didn't earn those minutes and contribute to those teams being loaded.

Which is funny because we haven't been all that "loaded". CB is about the only 1 from any of those teams doing a damn thing in the NBA.

That team was loaded. Won a title. The starting line up was dajuan, 3 nba players at 2-4, and a senior McDonald's all American center. Which surrounding dajuan with talent maximizes what a good role player he is

But dajuan wasn't the best point on that team, never meant to be the starter. Remy just had a weird year and missed a lot of time

randylahey wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 1:58 pm

DeletedUser wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 12:20 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 11:59 am

I think there should be a 30-day prohibition on praising a point guard's "elite court vision and understanding of the game" when his teams have melted down against shit competition twice in ten days.

And what about the coaches?

Not completely directed at you, but some of you blame DH when anything goes wrong and totally give passes to the coaches/players you like. It's transparent. When a poster never praises DH and always bashes DH after a loss whether it's deserved or not, then it's pretty obvious what's going on.


Or when someone says his assist numbers are from being on loaded teams and playing big minutes.....as if he didn't earn those minutes and contribute to those teams being loaded.

Which is funny because we haven't been all that "loaded". CB is about the only 1 from any of those teams doing a damn thing in the NBA.

That team was loaded. Won a title. The starting line up was dajuan, 3 nba players at 2-4, and a senior McDonald's all American center. Which surrounding dajuan with talent maximizes what a good role player he is

But dajuan wasn't the best point on that team, never meant to be the starter. Remy just had a weird year and missed a lot of time

That's ALL revisionist history....but goes to show how much winning changes the legacy of teams/players. People complained about DMac all year. Nobody expected CB to be an NBA player and that point....same with JW to a lesser extent.

And DH was the best PG on that team. That's why he started and played more than Remy.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 11:59 am

randylahey wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 11:56 am

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 10:51 am

He's a nice player.

But the assists are partly because he's a nice player, and partly because he plays 35 minutes/game for loaded teams and is openly, outwardly, obviously afraid to try to score.

He averaged 6.2 assists last season, 6.8 so far this year. The only other players self has ever had to put up assists numbers like that were senior devonte graham and Aaron miles. In fact the percentage of college guards for any school to average 6 assists a game is pretty low

Not sure why you are dismissing it as a participation trophy for just happening to be there

The guy clearly has elite court vision and understanding of the game

I think there should be a 30-day prohibition on praising a point guard's "elite court vision and understanding of the game" when his teams have melted down against shit competition twice in ten days.

Dajuan has multiple years averaging over 6 assists a game. No other player self has recruited has even done that

Sounds like elite court vision and understanding of the game to me

And I was one of dajuans biggest critics early in his career

DH is going to finish top 5ish in career assists in KU history. He didn’t do that because he's some Bill Self charity case who sucks.

But dajuan wasn't the best point on that team, never meant to be the starter. Remy just had a weird year and missed a lot of time

That's ALL revisionist history....but goes to show how much winning changes the legacy of teams/players. People complained about DMac all year. Nobody expected CB to be an NBA player and that point....same with JW to a lesser extent.

And DH was the best PG on that team. That's why he started and played more than Remy.

Harris was definitely supposed to be usurped by big transfer Remy but Remy didn't fit in and played pretty shitty a lot of the season.

I would say he was very key during March Madness - more important than Harris for sure - but Harris played more minutes at point through that tournament - and played more minutes in total in the Final Four games v Nova and UNC.