Kansas Crimson

MICHHAWK wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 8:38 am john kasich. tulsi gabbard.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 8:51 am

RainbowsandUnicorns wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 8:44 am

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 7:40 am

What is she supposed to have shown you?

She isn't supposed to have shown me anything other than what she's shown me (another Kamala Harrisism )

Being more serious (yes, I was being serious with my first sentence), I'm not understanding the question in regards to what I think you may be looking for in regards to my answer (another Kamala Harrisism?).
I thought I was being fairly clear by saying she hasn't shown me in the past 4+ years that she is capable of improving her public speaking. Meaning, to me, her public speaking hasn't improved in the past 4+ years and if she was making any effort to improve her public speaking - then she hasn't succeeded in that regard.
All that being said, I don't believe she has made an effort to improve her public speaking because I don't believe she and the Dems have felt it's a big enough issue. Until MAYBE now?

I mean, she was excellent after the debate last week, and that was on an emergency, unprepared basis.

I think there has been a deliberate program on the right to frame her as an unqualified, jumped-up token. That program is, to me, projection and good 'ol fashioned bigotry.

RainbowsandUnicorns wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 8:59 am

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 8:51 am

RainbowsandUnicorns wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 8:44 am

She isn't supposed to have shown me anything other than what she's shown me (another Kamala Harrisism )

Being more serious (yes, I was being serious with my first sentence), I'm not understanding the question in regards to what I think you may be looking for in regards to my answer (another Kamala Harrisism?).
I thought I was being fairly clear by saying she hasn't shown me in the past 4+ years that she is capable of improving her public speaking. Meaning, to me, her public speaking hasn't improved in the past 4+ years and if she was making any effort to improve her public speaking - then she hasn't succeeded in that regard.
All that being said, I don't believe she has made an effort to improve her public speaking because I don't believe she and the Dems have felt it's a big enough issue. Until MAYBE now?

I mean, she was excellent after the debate last week, and that was on an emergency, unprepared basis.

I think there has been a deliberate program on the right to frame her as an unqualified, jumped-up token. That program is, to me, projection and good 'ol fashioned bigotry.

I respectfully disagree with your first sentence. A) I don't feel she was "excellent". Pretty good, but not "excellent". B) I don't think she was "unprepared". I am extremely confident she was prepared to defend him if he had a bad debate. Which the Dems absolutely knew was a possibility. If she wasn't prepared, then the Dems should be fully embarrassed for not preparing her.

I completely agree with your next two sentences.

twocoach wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 10:25 am

RainbowsandUnicorns wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 8:59 am

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 8:51 am

I mean, she was excellent after the debate last week, and that was on an emergency, unprepared basis.

I think there has been a deliberate program on the right to frame her as an unqualified, jumped-up token. That program is, to me, projection and good 'ol fashioned bigotry.

I respectfully disagree with your first sentence. A) I don't feel she was "excellent". Pretty good, but not "excellent". B) I don't think she was "unprepared". I am extremely confident she was prepared to defend him if he had a bad debate. Which the Dems absolutely knew was a possibility. If she wasn't prepared, then the Dems should be fully embarrassed for not preparing her.

I completely agree with your next two sentences.

Then don't vote for her in a Primary.

If the goal is to replace Biden with someone who is able to beat Trump and mentally capable to complete the 4 years then I would have zero problem with Harris. There are also apparently campaign finance rules in place where if you replaced Biden with someone not already on the ticket (AKA Harris) then I do not believe that they can use any of the campaign donations that they have already collected. Someone not names Harris would I believe have to start from scratch.

RainbowsandUnicorns wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 10:37 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 10:25 am

RainbowsandUnicorns wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 8:59 am

I respectfully disagree with your first sentence. A) I don't feel she was "excellent". Pretty good, but not "excellent". B) I don't think she was "unprepared". I am extremely confident she was prepared to defend him if he had a bad debate. Which the Dems absolutely knew was a possibility. If she wasn't prepared, then the Dems should be fully embarrassed for not preparing her.

I completely agree with your next two sentences.

Then don't vote for her in a Primary.

If the goal is to replace Biden with someone who is able to beat Trump and mentally capable to complete the 4 years then I would have zero problem with Harris. There are also apparently campaign finance rules in place where if you replaced Biden with someone not already on the ticket (AKA Harris) then I do not believe that they can use any of the campaign donations that they have already collected. Someone not names Harris would I believe have to start from scratch.

The million dollar question is if she is a better choice to beat Trump than Biden is. I'm not so sure she is. Ok, then who if anyone is? I don't know. I don't think anyone knows.
If we are to believe what we are being told, as of right now Biden is their guy. Everything else is just talk and speculation.

RainbowsandUnicorns wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 10:37 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 10:25 am

RainbowsandUnicorns wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 8:59 am

I respectfully disagree with your first sentence. A) I don't feel she was "excellent". Pretty good, but not "excellent". B) I don't think she was "unprepared". I am extremely confident she was prepared to defend him if he had a bad debate. Which the Dems absolutely knew was a possibility. If she wasn't prepared, then the Dems should be fully embarrassed for not preparing her.

I completely agree with your next two sentences.

Then don't vote for her in a Primary.

If the goal is to replace Biden with someone who is able to beat Trump and mentally capable to complete the 4 years then I would have zero problem with Harris. There are also apparently campaign finance rules in place where if you replaced Biden with someone not already on the ticket (AKA Harris) then I do not believe that they can use any of the campaign donations that they have already collected. Someone not names Harris would I believe have to start from scratch.

The million dollar question is if she is a better choice to beat Trump than Biden is. I'm not so sure she is. Ok, then who if anyone is? I don't know. I don't think anyone knows.
If we are to believe what we are being told, as of right now Biden is their guy. Everything else is just talk and speculation.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 10:38 am

RainbowsandUnicorns wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 10:37 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 10:25 am
Then don't vote for her in a Primary.

If the goal is to replace Biden with someone who is able to beat Trump and mentally capable to complete the 4 years then I would have zero problem with Harris. There are also apparently campaign finance rules in place where if you replaced Biden with someone not already on the ticket (AKA Harris) then I do not believe that they can use any of the campaign donations that they have already collected. Someone not names Harris would I believe have to start from scratch.

The million dollar question is if she is a better choice to beat Trump than Biden is. I'm not so sure she is. Ok, then who if anyone is? I don't know. I don't think anyone knows.
If we are to believe what we are being told, as of right now Biden is their guy. Everything else is just talk and speculation.

You say that, but it's just hitting the wires that Biden has discussed his consideration of stepping down with "a close ally." Makes me think it's a done deal.

twocoach wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 10:42 am

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 10:38 am

RainbowsandUnicorns wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 10:37 am

The million dollar question is if she is a better choice to beat Trump than Biden is. I'm not so sure she is. Ok, then who if anyone is? I don't know. I don't think anyone knows.
If we are to believe what we are being told, as of right now Biden is their guy. Everything else is just talk and speculation.

You say that, but it's just hitting the wires that Biden has discussed his consideration of stepping down with "a close ally." Makes me think it's a done deal.

He would be foolish NOT to discuss it. You can't just put your head in the sand and wish this issue away. But I will assume that the ticket will remain the same until I see otherwise.

TDub wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 11:12 am the only time horses have been changed midstream was in 1968 and we ended up woth Nixon

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 10:38 am

RainbowsandUnicorns wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 10:37 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 10:25 am
Then don't vote for her in a Primary.

If the goal is to replace Biden with someone who is able to beat Trump and mentally capable to complete the 4 years then I would have zero problem with Harris. There are also apparently campaign finance rules in place where if you replaced Biden with someone not already on the ticket (AKA Harris) then I do not believe that they can use any of the campaign donations that they have already collected. Someone not names Harris would I believe have to start from scratch.

The million dollar question is if she is a better choice to beat Trump than Biden is. I'm not so sure she is. Ok, then who if anyone is? I don't know. I don't think anyone knows.
If we are to believe what we are being told, as of right now Biden is their guy. Everything else is just talk and speculation.

You say that, but it's just hitting the wires that Biden has discussed his consideration of stepping down with "a close ally." Makes me think it's a done deal.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 11:22 am

TDub wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 11:12 am the only time horses have been changed midstream was in 1968 and we ended up woth Nixon

We're in a space without precedent here. The only thing that matters is winning. If elevating Harris bumps those chances, that's what needs to happen.

RainbowsandUnicorns wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 11:52 am

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 11:22 am

TDub wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 11:12 am the only time horses have been changed midstream was in 1968 and we ended up woth Nixon

We're in a space without precedent here. The only thing that matters is winning. If elevating Harris bumps those chances, that's what needs to happen.

Again, that's the million dollar question/s. Does elevating Harris bump the chances? No one knows for sure and are the Dems willing to take that chance? Stay tuned?

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 11:56 am

RainbowsandUnicorns wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 11:52 am

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 11:22 am

We're in a space without precedent here. The only thing that matters is winning. If elevating Harris bumps those chances, that's what needs to happen.

Again, that's the million dollar question/s. Does elevating Harris bump the chances? No one knows for sure and are the Dems willing to take that chance? Stay tuned?

It's just a math problem, right? To me, the fact that the candidate's popularity so badly lags the platform's popularity means you really aren't risking all that much by changing the candidate.

And if the replacement gets you better turnout in some demographics, and (ideally!) the VP candidate is additive also...the math problem seems fairly easy to sort.

RainbowsandUnicorns wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 12:16 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 11:56 am

RainbowsandUnicorns wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 11:52 am

Again, that's the million dollar question/s. Does elevating Harris bump the chances? No one knows for sure and are the Dems willing to take that chance? Stay tuned?

It's just a math problem, right? To me, the fact that the candidate's popularity so badly lags the platform's popularity means you really aren't risking all that much by changing the candidate.

And if the replacement gets you better turnout in some demographics, and (ideally!) the VP candidate is additive also...the math problem seems fairly easy to sort.

Probably not a huge risk changing the candidate in regards to numbers but the risk can be great enough that it's the difference between if Donald Trump is elected or not.

I assume the demographic you are referring to is "Blacks". I have seen multiple polls that both support and do not support that. Kamala is hardly loved let alone even liked by many (most?) Black people. Therefore, I feel thinking it may be beneficial to have a Black candidate is another example of a crap shoot.

What the fuck do I know? The answer is VERY little.
My personal frustration is that the few people I do know, who are 100% in the know, I have not spoken with, and my guess is they wouldn't be completely transparent with me anyways.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 12:38 pm

RainbowsandUnicorns wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 12:16 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 11:56 am

It's just a math problem, right? To me, the fact that the candidate's popularity so badly lags the platform's popularity means you really aren't risking all that much by changing the candidate.

And if the replacement gets you better turnout in some demographics, and (ideally!) the VP candidate is additive also...the math problem seems fairly easy to sort.

Probably not a huge risk changing the candidate in regards to numbers but the risk can be great enough that it's the difference between if Donald Trump is elected or not.

I assume the demographic you are referring to is "Blacks". I have seen multiple polls that both support and do not support that. Kamala is hardly loved let alone even liked by many (most?) Black people. Therefore, I feel thinking it may be beneficial to have a Black candidate is another example of a crap shoot.

What the fuck do I know? The answer is VERY little.
My personal frustration is that the few people I do know, who are 100% in the know, I have not spoken with, and my guess is they wouldn't be completely transparent with me anyways.

I think the issue is also what you’d lose by passing her over.