Kansas Crimson

I don’t know how to quantify that. Would Melo at 35 beat more than 25% of the league in a game of one on one? Sure, I could see that.

But the analysis is more nuanced than that. Typically, guys in Melo’s present talent bracket (let’s call it the 20-30% bracket to stay with the example) are useful team defenders or specialists in things besides volume shooting.

I don’t think, all things considered, Melo is in the top 75% of the league right now. He’s perhaps not even a rotation guy on a halfway decent team (and the market bears this out).

Melo getting owned by the Knicks is a good chuckle to start my day.

And there it is - 5/$170 million for Simmons. Joel's near- and mid-term NBA future is now intertwined with whether Simmons learns to shoot.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:16 pm And there it is - 5/$170 million for Simmons. Joel's near- and mid-term NBA future is now intertwined with whether Simmons learns to shoot.

At least it's not Markelle Fultz.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:16 pm And there it is - 5/$170 million for Simmons. Joel's near- and mid-term NBA future is now intertwined with whether Simmons learns to shoot.

I don't think Jordan shot over 20% from three until his 4th season in the league. There is plenty that Simmoms can do out there while he works on that part of his game.

EDIT. It was his 5th.

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:52 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:16 pm And there it is - 5/$170 million for Simmons. Joel's near- and mid-term NBA future is now intertwined with whether Simmons learns to shoot.

I don't think Jordan shot over 20% from three until his 4th season in the league. There is plenty that Simmoms can do out there while he works on that part of his game.

You and I see this very differently. I don't expect the 76ers to be able to win without Simmons having some gravity on the perimeter. So: every season that goes by without him having figured that out is likely to be a wasted season for Joel. And we don't know how many seasons he's got in him.

There are worse people to be tied to than Simmons. I like how embiid and simmons fit together. They have a nice blend of skills. And both are elite defenders. Tobias Harris is a great 3rd wheel. Versatility and ability to hit some catch and shoot 3s.... they took the raptors to the limit last year, another year of growth will benefit them.

Speaking of them...I think the 76ers losing JJ Redick actually hurts more than losing Jimmy Butler, even though butler is a better individually. When butler and simmons were on the floor together simmons had very little offensive impact if he wasn't the 1 initiating the offense, so letting butler go to miami should help simmons ability to impact games even without a jump shot.....and with Josh Richardson that's some additional outside shooting help and defense.

76ers are going to be good.

Jordan might have shot terribly from three his first several seasons. but that was a completely different era. perimeter shooting is so important to the way the game is played now. when jordan played it wasnt

randylahey wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:44 pm Jordan might have shot terribly from three his first several seasons. but that was a completely different era. perimeter shooting is so important to the way the game is played now. when jordan played it wasnt

Not to mention that saying things like "Jordan did it despite bad-to-average shooting," or "Steph did it despite weighing 170," or "Charles did it despite being 6'4"" does an enormous disservice to those guys.

Healthy Embiid, fingers crossed. I like our chances in the East.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:55 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:52 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:16 pm And there it is - 5/$170 million for Simmons. Joel's near- and mid-term NBA future is now intertwined with whether Simmons learns to shoot.

I don't think Jordan shot over 20% from three until his 4th season in the league. There is plenty that Simmoms can do out there while he works on that part of his game.

You and I see this very differently. I don't expect the 76ers to be able to win without Simmons having some gravity on the perimeter. So: every season that goes by without him having figured that out is likely to be a wasted season for Joel. And we don't know how many seasons he's got in him.

He'll need to start being at least somewhat of a threat out there but they dont need him to be great at it. He's a 6'9 PG, he has other skills that he can do at an elite level. It wouldn't take him too long to be as good from as LeBron James is (not "good" but needs to be somewhat guarded out there). Get to that level and he's good.

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:40 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:55 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:52 pm
I don't think Jordan shot over 20% from three until his 4th season in the league. There is plenty that Simmoms can do out there while he works on that part of his game.

You and I see this very differently. I don't expect the 76ers to be able to win without Simmons having some gravity on the perimeter. So: every season that goes by without him having figured that out is likely to be a wasted season for Joel. And we don't know how many seasons he's got in him.

He'll need to start being at least somewhat of a threat out there but they dont need him to be great at it. He's a 6'9 PG, he has other skills that he can do at an elite level. It wouldn't take him too long to be as good from as LeBron James is (not "good" but needs to be somewhat guarded out there). Get to that level and he's good.

He's 0-17 in two whole seasons. He's a long way off from below-average.

With cheese on 'em.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:29 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:40 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:55 pm

You and I see this very differently. I don't expect the 76ers to be able to win without Simmons having some gravity on the perimeter. So: every season that goes by without him having figured that out is likely to be a wasted season for Joel. And we don't know how many seasons he's got in him.

He'll need to start being at least somewhat of a threat out there but they dont need him to be great at it. He's a 6'9 PG, he has other skills that he can do at an elite level. It wouldn't take him too long to be as good from as LeBron James is (not "good" but needs to be somewhat guarded out there). Get to that level and he's good.

He's 0-17 in two whole seasons. He's a long way off from below-average.

Yes, 0-17 no matter how you slice it but you realize that more than a handful of those were long range bombs he took to beat the buzzer - that every player in the league would have missed the majority of. Right? Here is a sampling of what I am talking about.

Dude should be good enough to be better than 0-17 IN TWO SEASONS, regardless of where he’s shooting it from.

We’re talking a max contract point guard here, in the modern era.

I mean fuck, even Shaq hit a 3.

I agree 100% he should be able to make a 3 point shot as a max guy. My guess is he makes multiple 3 pointers this season.
Dude is good enough to be better than 0-17 in two seasons.
Thing is some of those misses were near misses. Very easily could have gone in.
Sometimes you just have bad luck.
He's been working on his shot and supposedly he's going to be an improved shooter. I say he can and will only get better.

Even good shooters miss shots.
Shit, this past season Harden missed 16 of 17 3 pointers in a game.
In 2018 the Rockets missed 27 consecutive 3 point shots.
Steph Curry has had games where he went 0-10 from 3 point range.

I realize you and others are saying that the guy should be taking and making 3s and I am in complete agreement.
Let's see what happens this upcoming season. I don't expect him to be taking a lot of 3s and making them but I would be willing to bet a pizza he makes multiple 3s and has a game or 3 or 4 in which he makes more than one 3 pointer.

Philly could sure use Mason. Need at least occasional speed. Simmons and giants have a glaring tempo problem

I agree his shooting could become an issue, but they really had no choice other than to sign him to a max deal... he's too good to trade or let walk. 1 of the best young players in the league. There's a lot of max guys who are worse/less appealing and have less potential than Simmons. Plus he an embiid get along well and fit together relatively well. Embiid hits 3s and Simmons is a load inside when guarded by smaller players. I like how they mesh, but we will see how it plays out over the next few years.

Paul1 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:30 am
Even good shooters miss shots.
Shit, this past season Harden missed 16 of 17 3 pointers in a game.
In 2018 the Rockets missed 27 consecutive 3 point shots.
Steph Curry has had games where he went 0-10 from 3 point range.

Now, you just have to understand the difference between a one game sample size and 2 full season sample size.

Weird to say for a guy who has yet to make one, but he should have taken WAAAAYYYY more than 17. He just has it built into his brain that he can't shoot them. How many times has he been left unguarded? Could literally stand there for all 24 seconds and no one come close to him. If he even shoots just 1 or 2 a game, there's no reason the worst NBA shooter couldn't shoot 20% shooting open "shoot around" 3s. I'm not saying dribble in pull-ups off zero passes, but you can't have teams challenge you that you're not a bitch and you respond by proving to them that you really are a bitch.

Not a doubt in my mind that he'll adapt if needed. Giannis numbers with (at-most) half the attempts and it's a non-issue, if it's already not.

Jason Kidd got exponentially better when needed. Hell, the better example might be Marc Gasol.