Kansas Crimson

It doesn't really distract much from his "political peril". Everyone is still well aware of it on both sides. It does literally nothing to reduce the seriousness of that seperate situation. I will never understand why we pretend congress shouldn't be able (required!) to multi task.

The beat goes on.

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:28 pm It doesn't really distract much from his "political peril". Everyone is still well aware of it on both sides. It does literally nothing to reduce the seriousness of that seperate situation. I will never understand why we pretend congress shouldn't be able (required!) to multi task.

I think Trump overestimated the support he'd get from GOP legislators on this one (and why wouldn't he - they're pretty supine on everything else).

DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:06 pm When you've lost Tom Nichols...

I'm still trying to figure out what the lie was.

They didn't get caught in the middle?
It wasn't a tit for tat?

defixione wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:00 pm

DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:06 pm When you've lost Tom Nichols...

I'm still trying to figure out what the lie was.

They didn't get caught in the middle?
It wasn't a tit for tat?

Tough to have a "middle" when only one side is shooting.

This had been likened to spraying a hornets nest. And DC is now blaming the hornet for stinging the guy walking by while we sprayed the nest.

Yes, the hornet is a jerk. But you know that going into it.

I mean - this is why people that opposed the strike opposed it.

Wut?

That's the most morally deranged thing I've ever read.

DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:08 pm Wut?

That's the most morally deranged thing I've ever read.

hyperbole

Geezer wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:19 pm

DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:08 pm Wut?

That's the most morally deranged thing I've ever read.

hyperbole

Good point.

It's not even the most morally deranged thing I've seen today.

You don't agree?

Mjl wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:34 pm This had been likened to spraying a hornets nest. And DC is now blaming the hornet for stinging the guy walking by while we sprayed the nest.

Yes, the hornet is a jerk. But you know that going into it.

I mean - this is why people that opposed the strike opposed it.

Iran is the 18th largest country, with the 18th largest GDP and apparently the 14th ranked military (however such things as ranked) and we are comparing them to a hornet that isnt neccesarily cognizant of what it is stinging? The argument is that they were so on edge and flustered that their military and defense systems couldn't differentiate between a military threat and a commercial airliner? Seems like a real stretch.


If the scenario was reversed would we be blaming iran for our horrible miscalculation? Or would we be calling out our military defense as inept for the blunder?

DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:08 pm Wut?

That's the most morally deranged thing I've ever read.

Only if you live in a fantasy world.

What did you expect Iran to do in response to our actions?

TDub wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:13 pm

Mjl wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:34 pm This had been likened to spraying a hornets nest. And DC is now blaming the hornet for stinging the guy walking by while we sprayed the nest.

Yes, the hornet is a jerk. But you know that going into it.

I mean - this is why people that opposed the strike opposed it.

Iran is the 18th largest country, with the 18th largest GDP and apparently the 14th ranked military (however such things as ranked) and we are comparing them to a hornet that isnt neccesarily cognizant of what it is stinging? The argument is that they were so on edge and flustered that their military and defense systems couldn't differentiate between a military threat and a commercial airliner? Seems like a real stretch.


If the scenario was reversed would we be blaming iran for our horrible miscalculation? Or would we be calling out our military defense as inept for the blunder?

I see what you're saying.

Iran has done awful things and this is one of them, and I, along with everyone here, don't know if it's an honest mistake or intentional or negligent.

When we struck, it was likely there would be a response. In this case it was missiles - it could have been much worse.

It's entirely reasonable to believe that a country shooting missiles could mistake an incoming flying object for something else - it's the fog of war. Miscommunications, software errors, and human error happen regularly.

If you're certain this was intentional, then yes, Iran is 100% to blame. I don't know how anyone could be certain of that though.

And to answer your question about if the situation was reversed - I think our leadership would be blaming Iran for instigating an unstable situation, and whichever party was in charge's supporters would be supporting that, and the other party's supporters would be incensed.

I'm inclined to believe that whether it was intentional or accidental it is 100% Irans blame to shoulder. Wartime or not, stirred up or not, you absolutely cannot unleash a SAM on a commercial jet. You have to know what's in your airspace. Military HAS to be communicating with the airport. Their technology is sophisticated enough to manage those tasks and identify what is a true threat. The failure to do so is a massive error and cannot (my opinion obviously) be blamed on anyone but the country that fired the missile.

And I agree some subsets of people would support their party and blame iran. But i do (perhaps i have too much faith) believe the majority of Americans would condemn that action and place the blame squarely on our defense operations and government.

The US Navy shot down an Iranian airliner a while ago.

Geezer wrote: ↑Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:11 am The US Navy shot down an Iranian airliner a while ago.

1988.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:23 am

Geezer wrote: ↑Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:11 am The US Navy shot down an Iranian airliner a while ago.

1988.

Did we blame Iran?

what’s the likelihood this would have happened had the US not carried out the recent assassination?

what’s worse for iran, is that i think i heard that the airliner was LEAVING, not coming?

who the fuck travels to iran right now? you couldn’t pay me enough to travel to iran, iraq, afghanistan, pakistan, syria, etc. right now. not that the travelers are to blame (although trump did tell the soldier’s widow that he knew what he signed up for...smh), but there is undoubtedly a higher risk for tragedy when visiting that part of the world, imo

Steve Doocey - clearly not in the heavyweight category.