Kansas Crimson

Some professors have limited students - much fewer than 20,000 students.
But yes it's also here:

"but while I don't agree at all with the loads of money he is making ( and that's linked to the commercialization of the college product )"

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:42 am

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:39 am "Why doesn't Self making money to be at KU bother people?"

We've had this discussion in F the NCAA thread but while I don't agree at all with the loads of money he is making ( and that's linked to the commercialization of the college product ), I link it with a professor who is esteemed and can/will stay at the University, bettering it's students. Money should go into the schools for the betterment of current and future attendees not into the pockets of a couple individuals ( my opinion ).

Self betters far fewer students each year than an esteemed professor. He impacts/betters about 15ish "students" per year (and there is less turnover), meanwhile an esteemed professor touches hundreds maybe thousands per year.

There are about 20,000 students at KU? There are around 15 basketball players.

Bill's impact on the remaining student body is indirect, but it's still an impact. That's partly why KUAI pays him $10 million and the University plays very nice with KUAI.

Just don't want to get down a road where we start saying the professors should absolutely make more than Bill Self.

The best ones probably should.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:45 am

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:34 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:30 am

I agree in a vacuum. The issue, though, is that the money is already there and has been for a long time. We, the viewers, and with the help of the powers that be, made the players valuable, and it's not something that can logically be undone. The unfairness of it all was that the value was created, it's here to stay, but the distribution was wildly in favor of the powers to the detriment of the players.

So the whole "not everything needs to be just about money" sounds nice but we are so far removed from the point in time where that is even relevant.

Hard for me to justify paying Bill Self 10million a year to coach at KU, and then think Nijel Pack should be prevented from making $800k in NIL (from a non-school entity) as a player at Miami.

Self isn't coaching at Kansas due to love of the game or love of the school. Even though he loves the game and loves the school.

Why doesn't Self making money to be at KU bother people?

People were always under the wrong impression that it was the coach that drove the value of the sport. Whether that was willful ignorance or not, what is clear is that that is not the case.

And, of course, the nuance is that Bill Self's $10m is coming from KUAI and adidas (via KUAI). Nijel Pack's is coming from an approved third party that specifically wants a piece of Nijel Pack. I don't see how you can morally keep the latter from happening.

Morally or legally, you can't.

"I don't want kids coming to KU for $$$", that's fine. But Bill Self is here for the money too. Offer him free room and board and free classes/food/etc/etc instead of money and he isn't here.

Have teachers coach like the old days. And real students, not special criteria for some than others for admittance into a school. Make it about the school. Students playing sports.

I can understand that stance.

It'll make it worse for many people, but then it at least makes sense to hate the playing (or coaching) for money.

pdub -

A small part of me does understand and agrees with you. But I'd like to add that my belief/hope is that over the next 5-10 years, we'll see kids that previously would have left for the 'pros' and failed, stay and succeed. Kids that everyone knows really weren't ready, but because they felt obligated by their family/handlers/coaches/whomever to chase the $$$, they left school 1-2 years before they should have.

If it means we now all of the sudden have an increase in the number of upperclassmen staying and being significant contributors, not only at KU, but across the CBB landscape, then I feel that's a positive.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:49 amHave teachers coach like the old days. And real students, not special criteria for some than others for admittance into a school. Make it about the school. Students playing sports.

I can understand that stance.

I can understand that stance as well, and that still very much exists today.

You just won't get media companies to go to the games, film them, and make them accessible to the public.

"Offer him free room and board and free classes/food/etc/etc instead of money and he isn't here."

Silly.
Professors make more money than students.

kubowler99 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:52 amIf it means we now all of the sudden have an increase in the number of upperclassmen staying and being significant contributors, not only at KU, but across the CBB landscape, then I feel that's a positive.

And this is one part of why NIL is already and is going to make CBB better.

The NPOY is returning to school for the first time in 14 years.

The arguable best player and biggest name in the ACC is returning to UNC, one of the biggest brands in the game.

The majority of the guys declaring of the draft are holding onto their NCAA eligibility.

Some of this stuff wasn't really happening pre-NIL.

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:33 am "So the whole "not everything needs to be just about money" sounds nice but we are so far removed from the point in time where that is even relevant."

It's too late to reverse the damage we've done to the planet.
Fuck it, amiright?
Don't mind me, I gotta dump this left over fertilizer in the river.

Ok, but wouldn't it be just weird for someone to be personally sad over, say, tougher industrial emissions standards? Wouldn't that have the same fundamental energy as Alabama's state government offices being closed today for Confederate Memorial Day?

It's one thing to be nostalgic or wistful for the past generally, but it's another to be nostalgic or wistful because of a specific aspect of the past that was objectively wrong!

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:53 am "Offer him free room and board and free classes/food/etc/etc instead of money and he isn't here."

Silly.
Professors make more money than students.

Professors are there for the purpose of the college. Which is to educate students.

Bill Self is there to coach a basketball team.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:52 am

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:49 amHave teachers coach like the old days. And real students, not special criteria for some than others for admittance into a school. Make it about the school. Students playing sports.

I can understand that stance.

I can understand that stance as well, and that still very much exists today.

You just won't get media companies to go to the games, film them, and make them accessible to the public.

Can't have your cake and eat it too.

You can.
I can watch most of my local high school games in a metro population of 250k.
I'm not advocating for ALL money to be out of college ball. A scholarship and the benefits that come with it are worth ~150k a year.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:56 am

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:53 am "Offer him free room and board and free classes/food/etc/etc instead of money and he isn't here."

Silly.
Professors make more money than students.

Professors are there for the purpose of the college. Which is to educate students.

Bill Self is there to coach a basketball team.

Unfortunately education is not a ton different.

The best paid professors are very often the ones that bring the most value to the University via grants, enrollment, etc. That's why we are seeing program after program cut from universities.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 11:01 am

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:56 am

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:53 am "Offer him free room and board and free classes/food/etc/etc instead of money and he isn't here."

Silly.
Professors make more money than students.

Professors are there for the purpose of the college. Which is to educate students.

Bill Self is there to coach a basketball team.

Unfortunately education is not a ton different.

The best paid professors are very often the ones that bring the most value to the University via grants, enrollment, etc. That's why we are seeing program after program cut from universities.

those are the ones who’s death illy makes light of

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:55 am

kubowler99 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:52 amIf it means we now all of the sudden have an increase in the number of upperclassmen staying and being significant contributors, not only at KU, but across the CBB landscape, then I feel that's a positive.

And this is one part of why NIL is already and is going to make CBB better.

The NPOY is returning to school for the first time in 14 years.

The arguable best player and biggest name in the ACC is returning to UNC, one of the biggest brands in the game.

The majority of the guys declaring of the draft are holding onto their NCAA eligibility.

Some of this stuff wasn't really happening pre-NIL.

And, the market will find its equilibrium. And if Pack - an all-conference type at best - getting $400k/year ends up being consistent with (or under!) that equilibrium, all that tells you is how grossly undercompensated players were allowed to be under the former system.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:55 am Ok, but wouldn't it be just weird for someone to be personally sad over, say, tougher industrial emissions standards?

You have the analogy in reverse.
It wouldn't be weird for someone to be personally sad over the removal of all emissions standards, no.

I'm fine with NIL money. If it was NIL money, it probably woulda gone to Charlie Moore..and I'd be happy for him.

The money Pack is getting isn't NIL money, it's a payment to go to school at Miami that is being laundered through a business owned by a booster.

I'm all for people, including students making money, but there are restrictions for everyone. If this occurred in a professional sport, I guarantee you it would become a huge issue.

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 11:01 am You can.
I can watch most of my local high school games in a metro population of 250k.
I'm not advocating for ALL money to be out of college ball. A scholarship and the benefits that come with it are worth ~150k a year.

Giggle. That figure is silly. Big "golf course pays out tournament winnings in shop credit" vibes.

It's also entirely beside the point. Fringe benefits are part of any normal worker's compensation package. They are not the compensation package.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 11:02 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:55 am

kubowler99 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:52 amIf it means we now all of the sudden have an increase in the number of upperclassmen staying and being significant contributors, not only at KU, but across the CBB landscape, then I feel that's a positive.

And this is one part of why NIL is already and is going to make CBB better.

The NPOY is returning to school for the first time in 14 years.

The arguable best player and biggest name in the ACC is returning to UNC, one of the biggest brands in the game.

The majority of the guys declaring of the draft are holding onto their NCAA eligibility.

Some of this stuff wasn't really happening pre-NIL.

And, the market will find its equilibrium. And if Pack - an all-conference type at best - getting $400k/year ends up being consistent with (or under!) that equilibrium, all that tells you is how grossly undercompensated players were allowed to be under the former system.

Well illy brought up Remy and that he almost assuredly was guaranteed some kind of NIL money when transferring to KU.

Not to get into the "every player was important" argument again, but Remy was the only core rotation guy that was not here in 2021 and he also led the team in scoring during the tournament.

He didn't single handedly bring us the title, but we very much are toast without him. Considering the 1st natty in 14 years impact to KU Hoops, KUAI, the University, Lawrence, Kansas, KCMO, etc., the value of that transfer is maybe worth millions.

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 11:03 am I'm fine with NIL money. If it was NIL money, it probably woulda gone to Charlie Moore..and I'd be happy for him.

The money Pack is getting isn't NIL money, it's a payment to go to school at Miami that is being laundered through a business owned by a booster.

I'm all for people, including students making money, but there are restrictions for everyone. If this occurred in a professional sport, I guarantee you it would become a huge issue.

Fair take, and some of this stuff needs to be ironed out.

I think I underestimated just how many people/companies out there would want a piece of these guys after this became above board. Like if you are Paige Bueckers, your life has completely changed.