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Re: 2024
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2024 8:40 am
by jfish26
ousdahl wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2024 8:26 am
No.
I am feeling trolled by me suggesting I’ll vote for a third party candidate, and you responding to it with yet another attempt to suggest I’m a Putin parrot.
So, you are feeling trolled by the mere reference to one of the two 2024 candidates being aligned with Putin.
I think you have cause and effect somewhat muddled here. The cyanide-and-shit sandwich is an effect. A result. Both (1) voting Cornel
West and (2) amplifying right wing-friendly talking points are causes that contribute to that effect. That result.
It is true that any given person’s contributions are small. But it doesn’t take all that many contributions to impact on the results, ESPECIALLY when we have full knowledge that the Court is horny as hell for an excuse to throw the election to state legislatures (which are, by design, gerrymandered to hell).
Re: 2024
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2024 8:44 am
by ousdahl
Wait, so it’s not racism as long as you equally hate all people groups (besides the whites)
I don’t think that’s how it works
Re: 2024
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2024 8:45 am
by MICHHAWK
i don't believe that a vote for corny west is a vote for dt. i don't believe that a vote for corny west is a vote for the old uncle. i believe that a vote for corny west is a vote for corny west.
Re: 2024
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2024 8:48 am
by jfish26
And you are one of 10,000 votes that could swing the whole thing.
That, ous, is the point.
Re: 2024
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2024 8:52 am
by MICHHAWK
old uncle beat dt by millions of votes in 20. this ten thousand you are talking about is a drop in the bucket. should have zero affect/effect.
Re: 2024
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2024 8:53 am
by MICHHAWK
i hear that the old uncle is one of the greatest presidents of all time. it's in the bag.
Re: 2024
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2024 8:54 am
by JKLivin
ousdahl wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2024 8:44 am
Wait, so it’s not racism as long as you equally hate all people groups (besides the whites)
I don’t think that’s how it works
Not what I was saying, but you do what you do.
Re: 2024
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2024 9:00 am
by Shirley
JKLivin wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2024 8:28 am
Shirley wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2024 7:08 am
JKLivin wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2024 6:40 am
So, what people group, specifically, is he racist against? Cuz, apparently, brown people in general and Indian people specifically are not a problem for him.
Video link
Horseshit. Calling for enforcement of immigration law is not racism, no matter how much you would like it to be. You're smarter than that.
^^^
And not only that, who among us can deny illegal immigrants are responsible for the National Anthem performance by country singer Ingrid Andress at the All Star Game Home Run Derby contest Monday night:
Ingrid Andress says she was drunk, going to rehab after National Anthem at the MLB Home Run Derby
Re: 2024
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2024 9:02 am
by JKLivin
I have no idea what you're trying to say right now.
Re: 2024
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2024 9:04 am
by pdub
jfish26 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2024 8:48 am
And you are one of 10,000 votes that could swing the whole thing.
That, ous, is the point.
Consider me another one of those votes currently.
Reform our election process.
Re: 2024
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2024 9:07 am
by Shirley
pdub wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2024 9:04 am
jfish26 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2024 8:48 am
And you are one of 10,000 votes that could swing the whole thing.
That, ous, is the point.
Consider me another one of those votes currently.
Reform our election process.
Re: 2024
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2024 9:09 am
by jfish26
pdub wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2024 9:04 am
jfish26 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2024 8:48 am
And you are one of 10,000 votes that could swing the whole thing.
That, ous, is the point.
Consider me another one of those votes currently.
Reform our election process.
My feeling is that Trump winning this election is reasonably likely to send the election process even further in the wrong direction, perhaps for quite a long time.
Re: 2024
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2024 9:10 am
by pdub
I will vote just not for the two choices forced upon me.
I'm still making a chess move.
Re: 2024
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2024 9:11 am
by pdub
jfish26 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2024 9:09 am
pdub wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2024 9:04 am
jfish26 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2024 8:48 am
And you are one of 10,000 votes that could swing the whole thing.
That, ous, is the point.
Consider me another one of those votes currently.
Reform our election process.
My feeling is that Trump winning this election is reasonably likely to send the election process even further in the wrong direction, perhaps for quite a long time.
My hope is the turnout ( percentage wise ) is the lowest in American history by a significant margin and the people come to their senses and demand change regardless of administration.
Re: 2024
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2024 9:17 am
by jfish26
pdub wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2024 9:11 am
jfish26 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2024 9:09 am
pdub wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2024 9:04 am
Consider me another one of those votes currently.
Reform our election process.
My feeling is that Trump winning this election is reasonably likely to send the election process even further in the wrong direction, perhaps for quite a long time.
My hope is the turnout ( percentage wise ) is the lowest in American history by a significant margin and the people come to their senses and demand change regardless of administration.
I think this is putting a whole hell of a lot of faith - faith I do not share - in the right, with its captive judiciary, not simply pulling the ladder up behind it.
Mind you, it will not be through a single, sweeping declaration of NO MORE ELECTIONS. But through many and varied small things that
sound innocuous and add up to Russian-style (how
odd) "elections" that are not representative of the popular will.
Re: 2024
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2024 11:56 am
by ousdahl
pdub wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2024 9:04 am
jfish26 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2024 8:48 am
And you are one of 10,000 votes that could swing the whole thing.
That, ous, is the point.
Consider me another one of those votes currently.
Reform our election process.
^^^^^^
I’ve tried to say it before, but, I just don’t think “you should be compelled to vote for a guy you don’t want to save democracy” is, in fact, much of an appeal to democracy at all.
I think Trump is rotten, don’t get me wrong. He’s old, crazy, a chronological liar, a sociopath, and a felon, among other concerns.
But I think Biden sucks too. There’s concerns about him both personally (age and cognitive decline) and policy-wise (just as beholden to big money, pro-oil, pro-cop, economy is mostly still only good for the capitalist class, didn’t follow through on 2020 campaign promises like $15 minimum wage, made rail strikes illegal, let Roe be gutted on his watch and didn’t do enough to counter, not to mention WAR CRIMINAL, like how the fuck am I supposed to hold my nose and vote for that shit.
I think the better move than guilt tripping for compulsory support, is to just vote the candidate most reflective of my own views, to build the world I want.
And in terms of chess match, to maybe even get critical mass for third/multi-party options, rather than this giant doosh v turd sammich lesser of two evils bullshit we’re supposed to just kinda go along with
Re: 2024
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2024 12:01 pm
by MICHHAWK
the notion that "the fate of the world is at stake!" always make me chuckle.
Re: 2024
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2024 12:01 pm
by pdub
"But I think Biden sucks too...[ list of things ]"
Miss me on a number of those - especially the very silly and exhaustingly eye rolling last one - but in general, I agree.
But it's more the philosophy that he isn't anywhere near the best a country that I still think has a number of enlightened minds has to offer - not even close to near.
Biden is getting a charred steak at a restaurant full of top notch chefs.
Trump is like getting served a plate of watery dog shit.
I'm not eating either of them in principle even if it means that restaurant is now going to exclusively serve watery dog shit -- and i'll hope that the restaurant, if it chooses to do that, goes out of business and resets itself to serve, I dunno, something we all can eat.
Re: 2024
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2024 12:13 pm
by jfish26
ousdahl wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2024 11:56 am
pdub wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2024 9:04 am
jfish26 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2024 8:48 am
And you are one of 10,000 votes that could swing the whole thing.
That, ous, is the point.
Consider me another one of those votes currently.
Reform our election process.
^^^^^^
I’ve tried to say it before, but, I just don’t think “you should be compelled to vote for a guy you don’t want to save democracy” is, in fact, much of an appeal to democracy at all.
I think Trump is rotten, don’t get me wrong. He’s old, crazy, a chronological liar, a sociopath, and a felon, among other concerns.
But I think Biden sucks too. There’s concerns about him both personally (age and cognitive decline) and policy-wise (just as beholden to big money, pro-oil, pro-cop, economy is mostly still only good for the capitalist class, didn’t follow through on 2020 campaign promises like $15 minimum wage, made rail strikes illegal, let Roe be gutted on his watch and didn’t do enough to counter, not to mention WAR CRIMINAL, like how the fuck am I supposed to hold my nose and vote for that shit.
I think the better move than guilt tripping for compulsory support, is to just vote the candidate most reflective of my own views, to build the world I want.
And in terms of chess match, to maybe even get critical mass for third/multi-party options, rather than this giant doosh v turd sammich lesser of two evils bullshit we’re supposed to just kinda go along with
I just think this doesn't give nearly enough weight to the fact that, if 10,000 people in any swing state act on these well-meaning impulses, then not only will the "message" or whatever not be heard, but things will slide appreciably - and perhaps catastrophically and for a very long time - backwards.
Even if we agree that where we are at is not
good, it is - I would HOPE we agree - significantly better than in places like Russia.
But make no mistake, that is the sort of place the right wants to take us.
There is no clearer tell on that than in the scope of the immunity opinion - that opinion was drafted by people who very obviously do not intend on there EVER being a liberal President and a liberal Supreme Court. And these are not foolish people who simply overlook the possibility that their side might, in the ordinary course, simply lose some day.
Re: 2024
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2024 1:18 pm
by Sparko
MICHHAWK wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2024 12:01 pm
the notion that "the fate of the world is at stake!" always make me chuckle.
It should, since you think internment camps and global climate collapse are somebody else's problem. But an idiot the size of Texas like Trump will make short work of prosperoty and peace. You might notice that we are in the greatest economy of our lifetime and not at war for the first time since Carter.