Re: Trump/Republicans 2020: Suppressing Votes & Weaponizing the Government.
Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 9:52 am
by Deleted User 89
yeah, cuz Obama didn’t get shit done...lol
do you not remember that pubs had all the power possible in trump’s first two years?
Re: Trump/Republicans 2020: Suppressing Votes & Weaponizing the Government.
Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 9:54 am
by Deleted User 310
TraditionKU wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 9:52 am
yeah, cuz Obama didn’t get shit done...lol
do you not remember that pubs had all the power possible in trump’s first two years?
I am not saying Obama didn't get shit done, i was simply talking about how the Republicans made it as difficult as possible for him to get stuff done in a bipartisan fashion. Which is why i said "unproductive as far as both sides working together...".. sorry if it looks like i was calling obama himself unproductive, that certainly wasn't my intent.
I remember Trump's first 2 years....although i wish i could forget all 4 of them.
I would like a president and a government more interested in actually helping those who pay their salaries rather than scoring points against "the other side". It would be nice if both sides worked together a little (a lot) more frequently than they currently do.
Re: Trump/Republicans 2020: Suppressing Votes & Weaponizing the Government.
jfish26 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 9:06 am
Biden also doesn't need help. Not in the way Trump does (and did, in 2016).
I totally agree that it definitely isn't the same, but Biden absolutely needs help. He needs people to be so afraid and outraged at the thought of Trump getting elected again that dems voter turnout is high in the swing states. So foreign disinformation campaigns that are targeted at dems can absolutely help achieve that, even though i agree he will probably win regardless...and trump says enough ridiculously offensive stuff on his own that they probably don't have to completely fabricate much.
I guess i just am hesitant to feel it is such a "lock" when everyone said he had no chance against Clinton in 2016.
We will see. I am not sure what dems will do if trump actually does win. Will they accept the results of the election?
Many of the questions we have about what trump and his followers will do can also be flipped to the dems in some instances.
Either way, unless the dems take back the senate i expect the next 4 years will be largely unproductive as far as both sides working together to actually get meaningful things accomplished that benefit all americans. Maybe i am just pessimistic after how the last 4-12 years have gone.
I specifically meant that Biden does not need foreign interference in order for the things that he needs to happen, to happen. He doesn't even necessarily need outrage or fear - he really just needs the black vote to turn out and be counted.
The evidence before us (2016; the polls now; Trump's actions and words now) is that Trump does in fact need the election to be something other than fair. I think it is a very bad misread to conclude now that, because Trump and the GOP are willing to act in bad faith (and in contravention of the law, to say nothing of norms and mores), that the Democrats are equally likely to so act.
To their credit (well, not credit, really) it's clear the GOP is willing to go to much greater lengths to win.
Re: Trump/Republicans 2020: Suppressing Votes & Weaponizing the Government.
Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:43 pm
by Sparko
The democrats need to push for universal healthcare. But, unfortunately that message would be denounced 24-7 by rightwing media. It will have to come eventually. Americans will support it in huge majorities. But many will have to be eased into accepting something that actually helps them. We have a “two legs bad” echo chamber.
Re: Trump/Republicans 2020: Suppressing Votes & Weaponizing the Government.
ousdahl wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:40 am
if Biden were to receive "help" from foreign interference in the election, I imagine he would express more concern about it than dismissing it over and over as "a Republican witch hunt"
He hasn't so far and CNN reported he was getting "help" from China and Iran.
But i agree with JFish that there are different degrees of help, and Biden certainly hasn't done the ignorant public solicitation for "help" that Trump has historically.
One candidate is probably getting some assistance that he can't do anything about even if he wanted to.
The other has used our tax dollars to extort a foreign government to help him in the election.
That you're even hinting at these being comparable is either stupid or dishonest. And I get that you caveated it, but then in that case, what's your point?
Re: Trump/Republicans 2020: Suppressing Votes & Weaponizing the Government.
ousdahl wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:40 am
if Biden were to receive "help" from foreign interference in the election, I imagine he would express more concern about it than dismissing it over and over as "a Republican witch hunt"
He hasn't so far and CNN reported he was getting "help" from China and Iran.
But i agree with JFish that there are different degrees of help, and Biden certainly hasn't done the ignorant public solicitation for "help" that Trump has historically.
One candidate is probably getting some assistance that he can't do anything about even if he wanted to.
The other has used our tax dollars to extort a foreign government to help him in the election.
That you're even hinting at these being comparable is either stupid or dishonest. And I get that you caveated it, but then in that case, what's your point?
I haven't hinted that they are the same, or close to the same (especially since trump publicly solicited help in at least 1 instance that i remember). I simply questioned whether the concern/outrage will be the same/similar because i don't think it will....and i am talking about both sides. I think the right will respond totally different to reports of Iran/China wanting to help Biden compared to how the responded to what they called the "Russian hoax".
Re: Trump/Republicans 2020: Suppressing Votes & Weaponizing the Government.
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:35 am
by sdoyel
Re: Trump/Republicans 2020: Suppressing Votes & Weaponizing the Government.
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:02 pm
by jfish26
Well yeah - a big part of the game here is to hope the returns as of election night are favorable (or at least a contestable loss).
Re: Trump/Republicans 2020: Suppressing Votes & Weaponizing the Government.
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:17 pm
by Deleted User 289
I (and I figure most others) assume.....
Donald loses - He says the election was "rigged" and/or "unfair" and he fights it for months.
Donald wins - He doesn't question the results for one second.
Re: Trump/Republicans 2020: Suppressing Votes & Weaponizing the Government.
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:19 pm
by jfish26
Grandma wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:17 pm
I (and I figure most others) assume.....
Donald loses - He says the election was "rigged" and/or "unfair" and he fights it for months.
Donald wins - He doesn't question the results for one second.
He's already saying it's rigged and unfair, because he knows he would lose a fair election.
His play is to try to freeze the results by what's counted as of election night. To the extent he has any hope, it will vanish with later-counted votes.
Re: Trump/Republicans 2020: Suppressing Votes & Weaponizing the Government.
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:23 pm
by Deleted User 310
He doesn't have the authority to do anything meaningful. If he whines about it for his final 2+ months in office so be it.
Re: Trump/Republicans 2020: Suppressing Votes & Weaponizing the Government.
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:25 pm
by jfish26
IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:23 pm
He doesn't have the authority to do anything meaningful. If he whines about it for his final 2+ months in office so be it.
That depends on the margin. If he's only a state or two away, it's not inconceivable that bad faith lawsuits might work.
If he's six or seven states away, different story.
Re: Trump/Republicans 2020: Suppressing Votes & Weaponizing the Government.
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:41 pm
by ousdahl
Oh come on, it’s not like an entire U.S. presidential election could come down to a couple dimpled ballots in Florida or something...
Re: Trump/Republicans 2020: Suppressing Votes & Weaponizing the Government.
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:52 pm
by Deleted User 89
hanging chads...lol
only it’s not really all that funny
Re: Trump/Republicans 2020: Suppressing Votes & Weaponizing the Government.
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:57 pm
by sdoyel
Where do I put this garbage?
Re: Trump/Republicans 2020: Suppressing Votes & Weaponizing the Government.