Kansas Crimson

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 12:12 pm

TDub wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 10:46 am This is going to kill office real estate and boom real estate in rural areas if people can now work without driving to an office.

except for the whole rural infrastructure issue (internet availability)

my folks’ vacation home in the dakotas has better internet options (right on the edge of town) than their primary residence north of Lawrence

this pandemic should lend credence to the idea that internet access should be considered “essential” in the way public utilities are

Disagree there. Its not essential in the same way other utilities are, power and water (well, at least water) are required for existence. Internet is not.

That being said, ill take well water over city water all day.

essential to live is one thing

government-provided infrastructure is another

It's become essential for education and increasingly health care.

internet is becoming as essential to social and economic life, as water is to biologic life.

TDub wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 12:45 pm

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 12:12 pm

TDub wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 10:46 am This is going to kill office real estate and boom real estate in rural areas if people can now work without driving to an office.

except for the whole rural infrastructure issue (internet availability)

my folks’ vacation home in the dakotas has better internet options (right on the edge of town) than their primary residence north of Lawrence

this pandemic should lend credence to the idea that internet access should be considered “essential” in the way public utilities are

Disagree there. Its not essential in the same way other utilities are, power and water (well, at least water) are required for existence. Internet is not.

Who is talking about "existence"?

If the pandemic demonstrates that a significant number of people can stop working in large cities and instead work from home, and a fair number of those people want to live in rural areas, they need internet access that will make their work efficient. And if they can't have good internet service in a particular area, they won't move there.

Small towns and rural areas that see their populations shrinking and all the younger people move "to the city" might see people moving into their areas a good thing, wouldn't they?

Feral wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 2:27 pm

TDub wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 12:45 pm

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 12:12 pm
except for the whole rural infrastructure issue (internet availability)

my folks’ vacation home in the dakotas has better internet options (right on the edge of town) than their primary residence north of Lawrence

this pandemic should lend credence to the idea that internet access should be considered “essential” in the way public utilities are

Disagree there. Its not essential in the same way other utilities are, power and water (well, at least water) are required for existence. Internet is not.

Who is talking about "existence"?

If the pandemic demonstrates that a significant number of people can stop working in large cities and instead work from home, and a fair number of those people want to live in rural areas, they need internet access that will make their work efficient. And if they can't have good internet service in a particular area, they won't move there.

Small towns and rural areas that see their populations shrinking and all the younger people move "to the city" might see people moving into their areas a good thing, wouldn't they?

Nah. Most small town people want to remain small. If we wanted to live in the city we would. More people, more traffic, more bullshit. More people in the woods, land prices go up and chase out the locals.

TDub wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 3:35 pm

Feral wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 2:27 pm

TDub wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 12:45 pm

Disagree there. Its not essential in the same way other utilities are, power and water (well, at least water) are required for existence. Internet is not.

Who is talking about "existence"?

If the pandemic demonstrates that a significant number of people can stop working in large cities and instead work from home, and a fair number of those people want to live in rural areas, they need internet access that will make their work efficient. And if they can't have good internet service in a particular area, they won't move there.

Small towns and rural areas that see their populations shrinking and all the younger people move "to the city" might see people moving into their areas a good thing, wouldn't they?

Nah. Most small town people want to remain small. If we wanted to live in the city we would. More people, more traffic, more bullshit. More people in the woods, land prices go up and chase out the locals.

I agree. I have lived in both urban and rural areas, and, by far, the best of both worlds is a rural setting 30-40 miles from the city. Those who haven't lived the rural life assume that people live out here because they are failures or misfits or are afraid of the city. To the contrary, most of us have lived in the city before, didn't hate it, but also didn't especially like it, and prefer a small town with lower crime rates, lower taxes, smaller schools, and less traffic and noise. Most small towns would like to see a reasonable influx of younger people, but a major shift would not be popular.

Also, young people leaving is an overexaggerated phenomena perputaed by people who see the city as the only land of opportunity. In my experience most of the young people dont leave or leave for a few years and return. Of course there are some that leave but not nearly as high a percentage as has been posited here.

TDub wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 3:54 pm Also, young people leaving is an overexaggerated phenomena perputaed by people who see the city as the only land of opportunity. In my experience most of the young people dont leave or leave for a few years and return. Of course there are some that leave but not nearly as high a percentage as has been posited here.

That is true.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 11:48 am

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 11:14 am

TDub wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 10:46 am This is going to kill office real estate and boom real estate in rural areas if people can now work without driving to an office.

Its definitely going to kill new construction of commercial office space.

Downtown hotels, too.

And downtown stadiums, too.

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 1:02 pm essential to live is one thing

government-provided infrastructure is another

I just don't think its the govts responsibility to ensure all corners of the earth have fiber.

HouseDivided wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 4:03 pm

TDub wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 3:54 pm Also, young people leaving is an overexaggerated phenomena perputaed by people who see the city as the only land of opportunity. In my experience most of the young people dont leave or leave for a few years and return. Of course there are some that leave but not nearly as high a percentage as has been posited here.

That is true.

http://www.ipsr.ku.edu/publicat/kpr/kpr ... N1A1.shtml

HouseDivided wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 4:03 pm

TDub wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 3:54 pm Also, young people leaving is an overexaggerated phenomena perputaed by people who see the city as the only land of opportunity. In my experience most of the young people dont leave or leave for a few years and return. Of course there are some that leave but not nearly as high a percentage as has been posited here.

That is true.

In terms of personal experiences I can only speak about the trend that had been common in my life.
A person grow up in the suburbs, they go to college, they come back, they live in the city, they get married, they move back out the suburbs with their spouse to raise their kids, their kids go to college and hopefully graduate from college, they sell their home and move to the city, they buy a "summer" home in not too far away "countryside" and a "winter" home in a warm climate.

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 12:12 pm

TDub wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 10:46 am This is going to kill office real estate and boom real estate in rural areas if people can now work without driving to an office.

except for the whole rural infrastructure issue (internet availability)

my folks’ vacation home in the dakotas has better internet options (right on the edge of town) than their primary residence north of Lawrence

this pandemic should lend credence to the idea that internet access should be considered “essential” in the way public utilities are

Our county had a great tech guy a few years ago who lived in a very rural part of the county, but was really big on what rural areas have to do for internet access. He talked a lot about how many jobs would be lost in small towns and rural areas if their states didn't provide internet access in a big way--loss of billions and billions of dollars. Our county commissioners weren't much interested.

He got a better offer and moved to Tallahassee.

Not essential but whatever small step below essential is.

People moving out of rural America to the burbs is a statistical fact.

Why in the world do you think states like Kansas are paying college graduates to live in the rural areas?

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Sat May 23, 2020 9:03 am People moving out of rural America to the burbs is a statistical fact.

Why in the world do you think states like Kansas are paying college graduates to live in the rural areas?

It's not just numbers either. It tends to be the best snd brightest that leave.

Geezer wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 5:38 pm

HouseDivided wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 4:03 pm

TDub wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 3:54 pm Also, young people leaving is an overexaggerated phenomena perputaed by people who see the city as the only land of opportunity. In my experience most of the young people dont leave or leave for a few years and return. Of course there are some that leave but not nearly as high a percentage as has been posited here.

That is true.

http://www.ipsr.ku.edu/publicat/kpr/kpr ... N1A1.shtml

2007 was, like, 13 years ago or something, right?

Also, much to the new urbanists' dismay, COVID is pretty clearly demonstrating the disadvantages of contemporary urban living - which, shockingly enough, are very similar to the disadvantages of historical urban living.

Single-family homes, with single-family ventilation systems; large yards; individual means of transportation; and a general lack of crowds have proven to be incredibly valuable characteristics for ideal living in pandemic conditions.

As CnB notes, this doesn't necessarily mean a rebirth in rural living, necessarily, but the #s show pretty clearly that it's sparked a new out-migration from densely packed urban areas.