Kansas Crimson

KUTradition wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:43 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:38 am

KUTradition wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:33 am …sounds nice but we are so far removed from the point in time where that is even relevant.

this sounds awful familiar…

Not sure what you are referencing.

I just think the "not everything has to be about money" is not really germane to the NIL topic. At the very least, not at this point.

your response is awful similar to those that Ousie has gotten about the Ukraine war

Sigh.

Lemme know if you wanna go fishing.

I also think it is important to remember that the transfer portal is also very new and a completely separate issue, but the timing is overlapping.

And, it is entirely the NCAA's fault that the transfer portal in basketball and football got off the ground around the same time that NIL did.

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 11:03 am

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:55 am Ok, but wouldn't it be just weird for someone to be personally sad over, say, tougher industrial emissions standards?

You have the analogy in reverse.
It wouldn't be weird for someone to be personally sad over the removal of all emissions standards, no.

But you are sad about players getting paid. This was an entire post of yours (I'm not going to cherry-pick bits of it out of context):

I could rename all the reasons that have already been laid out in prior threads but I think the core of it is because college basketball won't be unique anymore and it used to be. And, in the end, college may have nothing at all to do with it.

The side commentary ( sinister ) is just absolute garbage.

You are sad that "college basketball won't be unique anymore."

The specific way in which "college basketball won't be unique anymore" is that its players are going to be treated more fairly.

You are sad about the players being treated more fairly.

I am fully aware of - and I take at face value and in fact give you credit for - your repeated insistence that you'd be fine with a hard-line amateurism stance that would inevitably result in a significant watering-down of the player and coach talent pools.

But unfortunately that is not really all that compatible with being a diehard fan of any Power 5 program, really any Division I program.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 11:12 am I also think it is important to remember that the transfer portal is also very new and a completely separate issue, but the timing is overlapping.

And, it is entirely the NCAA's fault that the transfer portal in basketball and football got off the ground around the same time that NIL did.

Yes. Anyone following this over the last few years knew with 100% certainty that change was coming. And that the NCAA's options were: (1) proactively, plan for, and shape, the change, or (2) bury your head in the sand and let the change be imposed on you.

We know which path the NCAA took.

50k out of state tuition for KU.
A nice apartment like KUBB lives in could reasonably go for 2k a month, and then food, so that's 24k.
4k year bonus stipend.
We're around 80k before:

Team meals. Travel costs. Tutoring. Weight training. Physical therapists. Media prep. Media presence. Promotion of individual brand through the school. These last few things, considering I have worked closely in the business, could be easily worth 70k alone.

If coaches can move freely and make money, then players should be able to as well.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 11:12 am You are sad about the players being treated more fairly.

I am sad about the death of college basketball as we knew it - with the submission to a complete free market where the value is centered around money.
In this case, in the analogy, where it was said it was too late to do anything about it: i'm sad about the state of the planet/environment as it is becoming, say I preferred not to drill on land that was supposed to be protected for environmental reasons, and now, because it's too late and it's all about the money and we can't go back, we are drilling there.

You are warping the analogy here to what you think it is.
Which is fine.
You're just not following my original one.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 11:15 am If coaches can move freely and make money, then players should be able to as well.

I agree with this, but I am ok with de-incentivizing it, and probably think that should be done it anyway. (that goes for coaches too).

I proposed this for freshmen and no one liked it, but allow a player to transfer and become immediately eligible, but don't allow them to sign any new NIL deals until they've completed a season at the school they transfer to.

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 11:15 am If coaches can move freely and make money, then players should be able to as well.

And when the coaches move, they break contracts. The athletes do not because it is the schools that decided that scholarships are one-year deals to make the deal more favorable to the school.

Coaches are also often owed buyout money in the millions of dollars while players can just get tossed aside without a place to live, food to eat, and a tuition scholarship as severance.

"...while players can just get tossed aside without a place to live, food to eat, and a tuition scholarship as severance."

Why I wouldn't be opposed to a full year of college for every full year of college played.
i.e. I spent a year at KU, I have another full year of tuition/room and board ( just not on the team ) if I wanted to stay at KU.

Instead you have Nigel Pack getting 800k to go to Miami.

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 11:30 am "...while players can just get tossed aside without a place to live, food to eat, and a tuition scholarship as severance."

Why I wouldn't be opposed to a full year of college for every full year of college played.
i.e. I spent a year at KU, I have another full year of tuition/room and board ( just not on the team ) if I wanted to stay at KU.

Instead you have Nigel Pack getting 800k to go to Miami.

I think that was jfish's point - the NCAA could have driven the model, but instead chose to kick the can down the road until it was too late.

Oh, I think the NCAA royally fucked this all up.
I'm not defending them here.
If they were about maintaining the student athlete, they needed to get their shit together and put their money - or rather maybe not put their money - with their mouth is/was.

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 11:21 am

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 11:12 am You are sad about the players being treated more fairly.

I am sad about the death of college basketball as we knew it - with the submission to a complete free market where the value is centered around money.
In this case, in the analogy, where it was said it was too late to do anything about it: i'm sad about the state of the planet/environment as it is becoming, say I preferred not to drill on land that was supposed to be protected for environmental reasons, and now, because it's too late and it's all about the money and we can't go back, we are drilling there.

You are warping the analogy here to what you think it is.
Which is fine.
You're just not following my original one.

But, at bottom, you have to acknowledge that there's simply no way to separate the reason for the change from the substance of the change. What you're sad about is the players being treated more fairly, which is happening because they were being treated unfairly. This is just true,* even if you don't want it to be.

* The existence of a robust NIL market is irrefutable, full-stop evidence of this.

"What you're sad about is the players being treated more fairly, which is happening because they were being treated unfairly."

I think you are having problems reading.

Try again.

"I am sad about the death of college basketball as we knew it - with the submission to a complete free market where the value is centered around money."

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 11:15 am 50k out of state tuition for KU.
A nice apartment like KUBB lives in could reasonably go for 2k a month, and then food, so that's 24k.
4k year bonus stipend.
We're around 80k before:

Team meals. Travel costs. Tutoring. Weight training. Physical therapists. Media prep. Media presence. Promotion of individual brand through the school. These last few things, considering I have worked closely in the business, could be easily worth 70k alone.

Again, silliness. The $50k figure is high (even if you meant cost of attendance, and not just tuition).

And the fringe benefits are not offered gratuitously. They serve the program's and school's purposes, on and off the floor.

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 11:41 am "What you're sad about is the players being treated more fairly, which is happening because they were being treated unfairly."

I think you are having problems reading.

Try again.

"I am sad about the death of college basketball as we knew it - with the submission to a complete free market where the value is centered around money."

Yes, like I said. You're sad about the players getting treated more fairly. Whether you want to admit it, or not.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 11:22 am

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 11:15 am If coaches can move freely and make money, then players should be able to as well.

And when the coaches move, they break contracts. The athletes do not because it is the schools that decided that scholarships are one-year deals to make the deal more favorable to the school.

Coaches are also often owed buyout money in the millions of dollars while players can just get tossed aside without a place to live, food to eat, and a tuition scholarship as severance.

(It is here I'd point out that very very very much a feature of the NIL market could be financial incentives that discourage a player from leaving a school.)

So long as there is still a team representing KU, college basketball will still be unique and special to me.

College hoops in the 50s when Wilt came to Kansas from Philly was vastly different than college hoops in the 20s.

College hoops in the 80s when Manning came to Kansas was vastly different than college hoops in the 50s.

College hoops today is vastly different than in the 80s and it will be vastly different 40 years from now.

I am glad that TV money has changes the sport because I am glad that I can watch every single Kansas game no matter where I live.

i can only imagine the outrage at donut shops and gas stations when dunking was allowed…or when the 3 pt line was added

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 11:50 am So long as there is still a team representing KU, college basketball will still be unique and special to me.

College hoops in the 50s when Wilt came to Kansas from Philly was vastly different than college hoops in the 20s.

College hoops in the 80s when Manning came to Kansas was vastly different than college hoops in the 50s.

College hoops today is vastly different than in the 80s and it will be vastly different 40 years from now.

I am glad that TV money has changes the sport because I am glad that I can watch every single Kansas game no matter where I live.

If anyone did not enjoy watching the 2022 NCAA Tournament (which our friend MICH says is the best postseason in any sport by a wide margin) and/or did not enjoy watching KU win the freaking national championship because they knew some of these players were getting some cash for their name, image, and likeness, then that is a choice that is entirely on them.