Kansas Crimson

jeepinjayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:54 pm

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:48 pm

jeepinjayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:47 pm

Didn't take you long to get back to the form that made people hope you would leave.

It's kinda like riding a bike.

Clearly.
I notice there haven't been a lot of "welcome backs"

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:50 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:48 pm

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:44 pm Didn't K and Calipari both win national titles lead by OADs? Sure seems that way.

Yes, those are the 2 teams that won national titles with multiple OAD players.

And those are the teams in our "peer group". Not fucking auburn TT Mich St or Virginia.

Your complaint should be that Self should get better at coaching OADs and not that we should stop recruiting the best possible players.

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:58 pm

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:50 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:48 pm

Yes, those are the 2 teams that won national titles with multiple OAD players.

And those are the teams in our "peer group". Not fucking auburn TT Mich St or Virginia.

Your complaint should be that Self should get better at coaching OADs and not that we should stop recruiting the best possible players.

Based on the results at Duke and at Kentucky, K and Calipari need to do the same. As I stated before, K was getting better results before he started signing OAD players, too.

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:23 pm who let illy back in?

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:59 pm There are 4 or 5 programs who regularly land multiple OADs. Duke UK UNC and KU.

Those schools have won 6 of the previous 11 national championships.

Is that evidence that the recruiting philosophies of those schools probably work pretty well for them?

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:05 pm K has 2 elite 8s in a row with mainly OAD players. Scrap the formula! It's not working!!!

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:01 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:58 pm

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:50 pm

And those are the teams in our "peer group". Not fucking auburn TT Mich St or Virginia.

Your complaint should be that Self should get better at coaching OADs and not that we should stop recruiting the best possible players.

Based on the results at Duke and at Kentucky, K and Calipari need to do the same. As I stated before, K was getting better results before he started signing OAD players, too.

You do realize duke just won a national title with some OADs in 2015?

An intelligent mind such as yourself couldn't possibly have forgotten that?

UK just won in 2012 with OADs.

Those probably are not the 2 programs you should pick out as failures at knowing the formula to win national titles.

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:19 pm

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:59 pm There are 4 or 5 programs who regularly land multiple OADs. Duke UK UNC and KU.

Those schools have won 6 of the previous 11 national championships.

Is that evidence that the recruiting philosophies of those schools probably work pretty well for them?

Carolina rarely has OAD players and has never won a title with a OAD starting for them.

Their '17 title team had a OAD in Tony Bradley. He played 14 minutes a game off the bench and got drafted on potential. They started 2 seniors and 3 juniors.

Their 09 title team had zero OAD players. They started 2 seniors and 3 juniors.

Their 05 title team had one, again coming off the bench in Marvin Williams. They started 2 seniors and 3 juniors.

Again, you're making my case for me, not supporting yours.

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:22 pm 2 of the last 7 national championship winners have been lead by OAD dominated teams.

I don't think it's OADs that are the problem.

Gotta have a mix around them, but considering only a few teams get OADs, and considering only 1 team wins it all each year...I'd say 2 out of 7 is evidence that Self is recruiting the right players (both OADs and multi year players to develop).

That's 28.5% of the last 7 national championship winners being led by OADs.....and since OAD led teams are less than 1% of D1 teams, that's strong evidence that having the best players results in the best outcomes over time.

Even though it didn't work for Duke this year.

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:25 pm

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:01 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:58 pm
Based on the results at Duke and at Kentucky, K and Calipari need to do the same. As I stated before, K was getting better results before he started signing OAD players, too.

You do realize duke just won a national title with some OADs in 2015?

An intelligent mind such as yourself couldn't possibly have forgotten that?

UK just won in 2012 with OADs.

Those probably are not the 2 programs you should pick out as failures at knowing the formula to win national titles.

Ask Duke fans if they are OK with just 2 final fours in the last 15 years despite the huge volume of great talent. Same with UK.

And "just"? It's 2019. UK has had what, six Top 2 classes and 15 OAD players since that national title?

DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:26 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:19 pm

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:59 pm There are 4 or 5 programs who regularly land multiple OADs. Duke UK UNC and KU.

Those schools have won 6 of the previous 11 national championships.

Is that evidence that the recruiting philosophies of those schools probably work pretty well for them?

Carolina rarely has OAD players and has never won a title with a OAD starting for them.

Their '17 title team had a OAD in Tony Bradley. He played 14 minutes a game off the bench and got drafted on potential. They started 2 seniors and 3 juniors.

Their 09 title team had zero OAD players. They started 2 seniors and 3 juniors.

Their 05 title team had one, again coming off the bench in Marvin Williams. They started 2 seniors and 3 juniors.

Again, you're making my case for me, not supporting yours.

You don't seem to understand what's going on here.

NOBODY, save maybe Cal, actively recruits OADs. Everyone recruits the best basketball players available, given their system. Some of our recruits leave after one year. Many of them probably should not have. Some of the guys we thought would be around a long time left earlier than expected -- and saved Philadelphia.

Shit happens. We had 3 McDAAs last year. And there is a reasonable chance ALL three will be here next year. Should we not have recruited them -- cuz maybe they could leave? Again, where would we have been this year without Dotson?

You get the best players you can and do the best you can with them for as long as they're here. Period.

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:29 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:25 pm

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:01 pm

You do realize duke just won a national title with some OADs in 2015?

An intelligent mind such as yourself couldn't possibly have forgotten that?

UK just won in 2012 with OADs.

Those probably are not the 2 programs you should pick out as failures at knowing the formula to win national titles.

Ask Duke fans if they are OK with just 2 final fours in the last 15 years despite the huge volume of great talent. Same with UK.

And "just"? It's 2019. UK has had what, six Top 2 classes and 15 OAD players since that national title?

How often are you expecting these programs to win national titles? LOL

Regardless of recruiting, expecting a program to fire off 2 or 3 national titles every decade is fucking unrealistic. It's not going to happen over time. It may randomly happen (Florida, Nova, Uconn) but we're talking about sustained success. Duke Kansas UK and UNC do that better than anyone. All recruit OADs. Every. Single. Year.

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:27 pm

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:22 pm 2 of the last 7 national championship winners have been lead by OAD dominated teams.

I don't think it's OADs that are the problem.

Gotta have a mix around them, but considering only a few teams get OADs, and considering only 1 team wins it all each year...I'd say 2 out of 7 is evidence that Self is recruiting the right players (both OADs and multi year players to develop).

That's 28.5% of the last 7 national championship winners being led by OADs.....and since OAD led teams are less than 1% of D1 teams, that's strong evidence that having the best players results in the best outcomes over time.

Even though it didn't work for Duke this year.

Do your own math. It means that 5 of the last 7 have NOT been led by OAD dominated teams.

That's 71.5%. Which seems to be noticeably better than 28.5%.

IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:35 pm Purdue has made 1 elite 8 in the last 30 years and you're using Carson Edwards as evidence that we shouldn't recruit OADs, even though Carson Edwards didn't win a national championship. Got it.