Page 24 of 90
Re: Who is the GOAT
Posted: Fri May 22, 2020 7:09 am
by Deleted User 289
NDballer13 wrote: ↑Thu May 21, 2020 11:24 pm
Then break it down for me. What's the difference between being the best all-around player and being the best player? If there are 100 categories in a game, and you're better at 75 of them, how is the other guy better at the game?
Why are you having difficulty comprehending that he didn't say best all around player and best player?
"When you think about best all-around basketball player, LeBron is probably the best of all time....but when you want to say 'who is the greatest ever,' it's still MJ." --Magic Johnson
He purposely said "best all around player" and "greatest". Not best all around player and best player.
I happen to think despite Jordan being a better defender, LeBron James probably is a better "all around player" BUT.................................
Jordan - 6 NBA Championships / 6 NBA Finals MVPs / 5 League MVPs / 10 scoring titles / 9 All-Defensive First Team / 3x Steals leader.
James - 3 NBA Championships / 3 Finals MVPs / 4 League MVPs / 1 scoring title / 5 NBA All-Defensive First Team
Does that help answer why someone might feel there is a difference between Michael's being the greatest and LeBron's being the best all-round player?
Again, Magic feels one guy is/was the "best all around player" and one guy is/was the "greatest".
NOT best all around player and best player.
Re: Who is the GOAT
Posted: Fri May 22, 2020 7:11 am
by TDub
Magic has to be nice, he brought Bron to LA.
Re: Who is the GOAT
Posted: Fri May 22, 2020 7:46 am
by pdub
"10 scoring titles"
22.9 FGA - 30.1 PPG ( 1.31 pt per FGA ) - MJ
19.6 FGA - 27.1 PPG ( 1.38 pt per FGA ) - Bron
1.38 * 22.9 = 31.6 PPG.
10 leading scorers during LeBron's years that would have surpassed some of Jordan's scoring titles:
Harden 34.4 PPG, 36.1 PPG, 30.43 PPG
Westbrook 31.6 PPG
Curry 30.1 PPG
Durant 32 PPG, 30.2 PPG
Kobe 31.6 PPG, 35.4 PPG
Iverson 30.1 PPG
Re: Who is the GOAT
Posted: Fri May 22, 2020 8:01 am
by Deleted User 310
Fun fact I saw somewhere....
Phil Jackson has won 18% of NBA titles. 2 as a player. 11 as a coach. Maybe he's the
Re: Who is the GOAT
Posted: Fri May 22, 2020 8:09 am
by Deleted User 289
pdub wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 7:46 am
"10 scoring titles"
22.9 FGA - 30.1 PPG ( 1.31 pt per FGA ) - MJ
19.6 FGA - 27.1 PPG ( 1.38 pt per FGA ) - Bron
1.38 * 22.9 = 31.6 PPG.
10 leading scorers during LeBron's years that would have surpassed some of Jordan's scoring titles:
Harden 34.4 PPG, 36.1 PPG, 30.43 PPG
Westbrook 31.6 PPG
Curry 30.1 PPG
Durant 32 PPG, 30.2 PPG
Kobe 31.6 PPG, 35.4 PPG
Iverson 30.1 PPG
Serious question, are you "arguing" with me or Magic?
I simply including ONE of the reasons why some/many/most people feel Jordan is the "greatest".
I'm someone who often explains to people that scoring points is fairly easy in the NBA when you take a shit load of shots - so 10 scoring titles can mean whatever people want it to mean. Seems you want it to mean - not much. Cool. Got it.
I have this feeling if LeBron won 10 scoring titles and Jordan won one - some/many/most people would use that to help reinforce their belief that LeBron was the greatest.
Re: Who is the GOAT
Posted: Fri May 22, 2020 8:26 am
by Deleted User 310
I like Malone. Unique dude.
Re: Who is the GOAT
Posted: Fri May 22, 2020 8:30 am
by Deleted User 310
Grandma wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 8:09 am
pdub wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 7:46 am
"10 scoring titles"
22.9 FGA - 30.1 PPG ( 1.31 pt per FGA ) - MJ
19.6 FGA - 27.1 PPG ( 1.38 pt per FGA ) - Bron
1.38 * 22.9 = 31.6 PPG.
10 leading scorers during LeBron's years that would have surpassed some of Jordan's scoring titles:
Harden 34.4 PPG, 36.1 PPG, 30.43 PPG
Westbrook 31.6 PPG
Curry 30.1 PPG
Durant 32 PPG, 30.2 PPG
Kobe 31.6 PPG, 35.4 PPG
Iverson 30.1 PPG
Serious question, are you "arguing" with me or Magic?
I simply including ONE of the reasons why some/many/most people feel Jordan is the "greatest".
I'm someone who often explains to people that scoring points is fairly easy in the NBA when you take a shit load of shots - so 10 scoring titles can mean whatever people want it to mean. Seems you want it to mean - not much. Cool. Got it.
I have this feeling if LeBron won 10 scoring titles and Jordan won one - some/many/most people would use that to help reinforce their belief that LeBron was the greatest.
I think what Magic meant is lebron is more versatile and if rated on all aspects would win more categories head to head.
I also think he meant MJ gets a boost for revolutionizing the game and becoming a world icon (especially pre social media and 24/7/365 news cycles)...some of MJs aura and greatness has nothing to do with on court play. It ecompasses everything he meant to the game.
Just my take.
Re: Who is the GOAT
Posted: Fri May 22, 2020 8:34 am
by TDub
pdub wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 7:46 am
"10 scoring titles"
22.9 FGA - 30.1 PPG ( 1.31 pt per FGA ) - MJ
19.6 FGA - 27.1 PPG ( 1.38 pt per FGA ) - Bron
1.38 * 22.9 = 31.6 PPG.
10 leading scorers during LeBron's years that would have surpassed some of Jordan's scoring titles:
Harden 34.4 PPG, 36.1 PPG, 30.43 PPG
Westbrook 31.6 PPG
Curry 30.1 PPG
Durant 32 PPG, 30.2 PPG
Kobe 31.6 PPG, 35.4 PPG
Iverson 30.1 PPG
Your cherry picking stats again. Using Jordan's career average vs those single season ppgs.
86-87. 37.1 ppg
87-88. 35 ppg
88-89. 32.5 ppg
89-90 33.6 ppg
Re: Who is the GOAT
Posted: Fri May 22, 2020 8:40 am
by NDballer13
Grandma wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 7:09 am
NDballer13 wrote: ↑Thu May 21, 2020 11:24 pm
Then break it down for me. What's the difference between being the best all-around player and being the best player? If there are 100 categories in a game, and you're better at 75 of them, how is the other guy better at the game?
Why are you having difficulty comprehending that he didn't say best all around player and best player?
"When you think about best all-around basketball player, LeBron is probably the best of all time....but when you want to say 'who is the greatest ever,' it's still MJ." --Magic Johnson
He purposely said "best all around player" and "greatest". Not best all around player and best player.
I happen to think despite Jordan being a better defender, LeBron James probably is a better "all around player" BUT.................................
Jordan - 6 NBA Championships / 6 NBA Finals MVPs / 5 League MVPs / 10 scoring titles / 9 All-Defensive First Team / 3x Steals leader.
James - 3 NBA Championships / 3 Finals MVPs / 4 League MVPs / 1 scoring title / 5 NBA All-Defensive First Team
Does that help answer why someone might feel there is a difference between Michael's being the greatest and LeBron's being the best all-round player?
Again, Magic feels one guy is/was the "best all around player" and one guy is/was the "greatest".
NOT best all around player and best player.
Why are you having difficulty comprehending I wasn't referring to Magic's quote?
"And that logic makes zero sense to me, lol.
It's like memes that say Jordan is the best player, then the next slot says LeBron is the best all-around player. How can you not be the best player if you're the best all-around player? What's the difference?"
I was referring to memes and debates you'll see on social media type places.
Best Dunker - Vince Carter
Best Handles - Pistol Pete
Best Rebounder - Wilt
and so on...
Things like that will have Best Player and Best All-Around Player. It's basically just a stubborn person saying, yeah I'll admit LeBron was a better basketball player than everyone else..........
......but MJ is still the best.
Re: Who is the GOAT
Posted: Fri May 22, 2020 8:44 am
by pdub
TDub wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 8:34 am
pdub wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 7:46 am
"10 scoring titles"
22.9 FGA - 30.1 PPG ( 1.31 pt per FGA ) - MJ
19.6 FGA - 27.1 PPG ( 1.38 pt per FGA ) - Bron
1.38 * 22.9 = 31.6 PPG.
10 leading scorers during LeBron's years that would have surpassed some of Jordan's scoring titles:
Harden 34.4 PPG, 36.1 PPG, 30.43 PPG
Westbrook 31.6 PPG
Curry 30.1 PPG
Durant 32 PPG, 30.2 PPG
Kobe 31.6 PPG, 35.4 PPG
Iverson 30.1 PPG
Your cherry picking stats again. Using Jordan's career average vs those single season ppgs.
86-87. 37.1 ppg
87-88. 35 ppg
88-89. 32.5 ppg
89-90 33.6 ppg
Key word being "some".
Other Jordan scoring titles:
28.7, 29.6, 30, 30.3, 31.4
So if you look in some of those other players averages, a number of them would have beaten out Jordan, depending on the season. Hell even a few of the ones you mentioned ( 33.6, 32.5 ) would have been bested by Kobe or Harden.
Re: Who is the GOAT
Posted: Fri May 22, 2020 8:45 am
by Deleted User 289
I like him too.
When I am able to Forget that he fucked and impregnated a 13 year old and fathered multiple children who he refused to pay child support and ignored their existence.
Re: Who is the GOAT
Posted: Fri May 22, 2020 8:49 am
by Deleted User 289
NDballer13 wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 8:40 am
Grandma wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 7:09 am
NDballer13 wrote: ↑Thu May 21, 2020 11:24 pm
Then break it down for me. What's the difference between being the best all-around player and being the best player? If there are 100 categories in a game, and you're better at 75 of them, how is the other guy better at the game?
Why are you having difficulty comprehending that he didn't say best all around player and best player?
"When you think about best all-around basketball player, LeBron is probably the best of all time....but when you want to say 'who is the greatest ever,' it's still MJ." --Magic Johnson
He purposely said "best all around player" and "greatest". Not best all around player and best player.
I happen to think despite Jordan being a better defender, LeBron James probably is a better "all around player" BUT.................................
Jordan - 6 NBA Championships / 6 NBA Finals MVPs / 5 League MVPs / 10 scoring titles / 9 All-Defensive First Team / 3x Steals leader.
James - 3 NBA Championships / 3 Finals MVPs / 4 League MVPs / 1 scoring title / 5 NBA All-Defensive First Team
Does that help answer why someone might feel there is a difference between Michael's being the greatest and LeBron's being the best all-round player?
Again, Magic feels one guy is/was the "best all around player" and one guy is/was the "greatest".
NOT best all around player and best player.
Why are you having difficulty comprehending I wasn't referring to Magic's quote?
"And that logic makes zero sense to me, lol.
It's like memes that say Jordan is the best player, then the next slot says LeBron is the best all-around player. How can you not be the best player if you're the best all-around player? What's the difference?"
I was referring to memes and debates you'll see on social media type places.
Best Dunker - Vince Carter
Best Handles - Pistol Pete
Best Rebounder - Wilt
and so on...
Things like that will have Best Player and Best All-Around Player. It's basically just a stubborn person saying, yeah I'll admit LeBron was a better basketball player than everyone else..........
......but MJ is still the best.
My apology! You were indeed responding to Cascadia. Not sure why I thought you were addressing me.
Re: Who is the GOAT
Posted: Fri May 22, 2020 8:54 am
by Deleted User 310
Grandma wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 8:45 am
I like him too.
When I am able to Forget that he fucked and impregnated a 13 year old and fathered multiple children who he refused to pay child support and ignored their existence.
Yikes. Didn't know that.
Re: Who is the GOAT
Posted: Fri May 22, 2020 8:58 am
by NDballer13
TDub wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 8:34 am
pdub wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 7:46 am
"10 scoring titles"
22.9 FGA - 30.1 PPG ( 1.31 pt per FGA ) - MJ
19.6 FGA - 27.1 PPG ( 1.38 pt per FGA ) - Bron
1.38 * 22.9 = 31.6 PPG.
10 leading scorers during LeBron's years that would have surpassed some of Jordan's scoring titles:
Harden 34.4 PPG, 36.1 PPG, 30.43 PPG
Westbrook 31.6 PPG
Curry 30.1 PPG
Durant 32 PPG, 30.2 PPG
Kobe 31.6 PPG, 35.4 PPG
Iverson 30.1 PPG
Your cherry picking stats again. Using Jordan's career average vs those single season ppgs.
86-87. 37.1 ppg
87-88. 35 ppg
88-89. 32.5 ppg
89-90 33.6 ppg
Volume matters when it comes to use just scoring averages. If LeBron took the same exact number of 2 point shots, 3 point shots, and free throws that MJ did, or vice versa, Lebron would still have almost 3000 more points.
Re: Who is the GOAT
Posted: Fri May 22, 2020 9:34 am
by TDub
NDballer13 wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 8:58 am
TDub wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 8:34 am
pdub wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 7:46 am
"10 scoring titles"
22.9 FGA - 30.1 PPG ( 1.31 pt per FGA ) - MJ
19.6 FGA - 27.1 PPG ( 1.38 pt per FGA ) - Bron
1.38 * 22.9 = 31.6 PPG.
10 leading scorers during LeBron's years that would have surpassed some of Jordan's scoring titles:
Harden 34.4 PPG, 36.1 PPG, 30.43 PPG
Westbrook 31.6 PPG
Curry 30.1 PPG
Durant 32 PPG, 30.2 PPG
Kobe 31.6 PPG, 35.4 PPG
Iverson 30.1 PPG
Your cherry picking stats again. Using Jordan's career average vs those single season ppgs.
86-87. 37.1 ppg
87-88. 35 ppg
88-89. 32.5 ppg
89-90 33.6 ppg
Volume matters when it comes to use just scoring averages. If LeBron took the same exact number of 2 point shots, 3 point shots, and free throws that MJ did, or vice versa, Lebron would still have almost 3000 more points.
Well, theres a lot of assumptions on both sides of this
Re: Who is the GOAT
Posted: Fri May 22, 2020 9:52 am
by Deleted User 289
IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 8:54 am
Grandma wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 8:45 am
I like him too.
When I am able to Forget that he fucked and impregnated a 13 year old and fathered multiple children who he refused to pay child support and ignored their existence.
Yikes. Didn't know that.
Hey - None of us are perfect. My guess is everyone has done something inexcusable themselves and yet we tend to judge others before we judge ourselves.
Re: Who is the GOAT
Posted: Fri May 22, 2020 10:06 am
by Deleted User 310
Grandma wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 9:52 am
IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 8:54 am
Grandma wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 8:45 am
I like him too.
When I am able to Forget that he fucked and impregnated a 13 year old and fathered multiple children who he refused to pay child support and ignored their existence.
Yikes. Didn't know that.
Hey - None of us are perfect. My guess is everyone has done something inexcusable themselves and yet we tend to judge others before we judge ourselves.
How old was he when he impregnated a 13 year old?
Re: Who is the GOAT
Posted: Fri May 22, 2020 10:12 am
by CrimsonNBlue
IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 10:06 am
Grandma wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 9:52 am
Hey - None of us are perfect. My guess is everyone has done something inexcusable themselves and yet we tend to judge others before we judge ourselves.
How old was he when he impregnated a 13 year old?
3.
Re: Who is the GOAT
Posted: Fri May 22, 2020 10:13 am
by NDballer13
TDub wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 9:34 am
NDballer13 wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 8:58 am
TDub wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 8:34 am
Your cherry picking stats again. Using Jordan's career average vs those single season ppgs.
86-87. 37.1 ppg
87-88. 35 ppg
88-89. 32.5 ppg
89-90 33.6 ppg
Volume matters when it comes to use just scoring averages. If LeBron took the same exact number of 2 point shots, 3 point shots, and free throws that MJ did, or vice versa, Lebron would still have almost 3000 more points.
Well, theres a lot of assumptions on both sides of this
Assuming career percentages stayed the same. I think they both took enough shots over their careers to get a good idea of the type of shooters they were, lol. Using the law of averages over 25,000 shots, I think the percentages are pretty much what they are. Won't be much deviation from here on out for LeBron's career numbers. Take MJ's shot total combined with LeBron's percentages, you would have 35,000 points. Do the same thing with LeBron's shots and MJ's percentages, and you get about 31,000.
The crazy part in all of this to me was the difference in shots. I new MJ took a shit ton, but didn't realize just how many. He has played in over 200 less games than LeBron and has still taken only about 120 less shots.
Volume matters.
Re: Who is the GOAT
Posted: Fri May 22, 2020 10:13 am
by NDballer13
IllinoisJayhawk wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 10:06 am
Grandma wrote: ↑Fri May 22, 2020 9:52 am
Hey - None of us are perfect. My guess is everyone has done something inexcusable themselves and yet we tend to judge others before we judge ourselves.
How old was he when he impregnated a 13 year old?
19 or 20 I believe.
