Kansas Crimson

BasketballJayhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:03 am Kansas football has sucked recently, but over our history we've had periods of being a solid program....and our fanbase will support the team if we can be even remotely competitive.

We can turn this football thing around!

It is reap what you sow. Especially considering KU's athletic budget.

The state of the football program is a little bit of bad luck, but overwhelmingly a product of the school and department's investment into it and the fanbase's snarky apathy.

I do think the current state of KU and KU athletics is maybe even comfortably enough to be in a major conference. But, there's not question a proper investment into the FB program decades ago would have us sitting a lot prettier.

If we manage to get into a Power 4 with this football program then KU needs to extend Self's contract to cover in case any afterlife is discovered because he would have been the only thing that kept it afloat.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:06 am The state of the football program is a little bit of bad luck, but overwhelmingly a product of the school and department's investment into it and the fanbase's snarky apathy.

and this is exactly why the program is a hindrance, and not a benefit

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:14 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:06 am The state of the football program is a little bit of bad luck, but overwhelmingly a product of the school and department's investment into it and the fanbase's snarky apathy.

and this is exactly why the program is a hindrance, and not a benefit

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.

The fact that we have a football program matters. And compare its potential to say, Purdue's.

Not having a football program would be a nonstarter for B1G. AAU status is not.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:18 am

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:14 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:06 am The state of the football program is a little bit of bad luck, but overwhelmingly a product of the school and department's investment into it and the fanbase's snarky apathy.

and this is exactly why the program is a hindrance, and not a benefit

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.

The fact that we have a football program matters. And compare its potential to say, Purdue's.

Not having a football program would be a nonstarter for B1G. AAU status is not.

Exactly.

i hope i’m wrong...guess we’ll see

JayhawkInIowa726 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:59 am I still can't believe we thought we were good staying at 10 instead of finding at least a couple free agent schools to add to our membership.

Louisville, Cincy, Arkansas..... Anybody.

Why were we the losers waiting for this to happen since the last time it happened? We were already big losers seeing Neb, Colo, Misery and A&M walk out the door for WVU and TCU...

Honestly, would having two additional programs like those resulted in this happening? I doubt it.

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:26 am

JayhawkInIowa726 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:59 am I still can't believe we thought we were good staying at 10 instead of finding at least a couple free agent schools to add to our membership.

Louisville, Cincy, Arkansas..... Anybody.

Why were we the losers waiting for this to happen since the last time it happened? We were already big losers seeing Neb, Colo, Misery and A&M walk out the door for WVU and TCU...

Honestly, would having two additional programs like those resulted in this happening? I doubt it.

You're right - a proactive conference would've done everything it could to bring more than two schools in - tempt members away from other Power 5's to position itself to be the hunter, not the hunted.

Instead they pretty much sat on their hands and said it's OK that we have a smaller pie, because we don't have to cut as many slices.

That lack of vision and aggression is why, barring some major unforseen circumstances, the Big XII doesn't look like it'll be around past 2025 - or at least definitely not a major player.

JayhawkInIowa726 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:38 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:26 am

JayhawkInIowa726 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:59 am I still can't believe we thought we were good staying at 10 instead of finding at least a couple free agent schools to add to our membership.

Louisville, Cincy, Arkansas..... Anybody.

Why were we the losers waiting for this to happen since the last time it happened? We were already big losers seeing Neb, Colo, Misery and A&M walk out the door for WVU and TCU...

Honestly, would having two additional programs like those resulted in this happening? I doubt it.

You're right - a proactive conference would've done everything it could to bring more than two schools in - tempt members away from other Power 5's to position itself to be the hunter, not the hunted.

Instead they pretty much sat on their hands and said it's OK that we have a smaller pie, because we don't have to cut as many slices.

That lack of vision and aggression is why, barring some major unforseen circumstances, the Big XII doesn't look like it'll be around past 2025 - or at least definitely not a major player.

These are all assumptions. We have no clue whether they tried to do any of what you are referencing and simply failed to find any takers.

Well they certainly had about 10 years to DO something, and weren't able to get anything done to protect the conference. It's either failure of effort, vision or results.

If you want to nitpick what kind of failure it is, go ahead. It's still a massive failure when there was time (9 years) to to do something about it.

I still see it as a failure of vision when Bowlsby says this two weeks before OU and Texas formally announce intentions to leave:

“It’s really moot on that question. Conference alignment is always at the discretion of the conferences. But you have to remember, the last time around, the last round of conference realignments was all driven by cable households, and we find ourselves now in a rapidly shrinking cable environment. It is much less driven by capturing a particular cable market because if it’s an in-market fee, you get a lot more money for it than if it’s an out-of-market fee. So the more you can include those things, the more revenue you’re going to derive from it,” Bowlsby said.

“That motivation is essentially gone. The cable universe has shrunk 20 million households already. It’s going to continue to shrink as we migrate to digital consumption and streaming. And so a lot of the motivation for realignment is no longer there.”

Bowlsby acknowledge that some of the motivation could still be there, but noted that “it’s not one of the things that keeps me up at night.”

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:40 am

JayhawkInIowa726 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:38 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:26 am
Honestly, would having two additional programs like those resulted in this happening? I doubt it.

You're right - a proactive conference would've done everything it could to bring more than two schools in - tempt members away from other Power 5's to position itself to be the hunter, not the hunted.

Instead they pretty much sat on their hands and said it's OK that we have a smaller pie, because we don't have to cut as many slices.

That lack of vision and aggression is why, barring some major unforseen circumstances, the Big XII doesn't look like it'll be around past 2025 - or at least definitely not a major player.

These are all assumptions. We have no clue whether they tried to do any of what you are referencing and simply failed to find any takers.

IIRC, Cincy, Memphis and Houston were not quiet about their desire to join the Big 12, but I certainly agree that that wouldn't have kept UT and OU from doing the inevitable.

Still, it does feel like the Big 12 ship was just allowed to sink.

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:51 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:40 am

JayhawkInIowa726 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:38 am

You're right - a proactive conference would've done everything it could to bring more than two schools in - tempt members away from other Power 5's to position itself to be the hunter, not the hunted.

Instead they pretty much sat on their hands and said it's OK that we have a smaller pie, because we don't have to cut as many slices.

That lack of vision and aggression is why, barring some major unforseen circumstances, the Big XII doesn't look like it'll be around past 2025 - or at least definitely not a major player.

These are all assumptions. We have no clue whether they tried to do any of what you are referencing and simply failed to find any takers.

IIRC, Cincy, Memphis and Houston were not quiet about their desire to join the Big 12, but I certainly agree that that wouldn't have kept UT and OU from doing the inevitable.

Still, it does feel like the Big 12 ship was just allowed to sink.

Apparently I shouldn't have named schools in that post because that's not the main point. The main point is they didn't find a solution and it didn't seem publicly like they thought a solution was necessary.

Hence feeling like the ship being allowed to sink or the Captain was asleep at the wheel.

JayhawkInIowa726 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:54 am

CrimsonNBlue wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:51 am

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:40 am

These are all assumptions. We have no clue whether they tried to do any of what you are referencing and simply failed to find any takers.

IIRC, Cincy, Memphis and Houston were not quiet about their desire to join the Big 12, but I certainly agree that that wouldn't have kept UT and OU from doing the inevitable.

Still, it does feel like the Big 12 ship was just allowed to sink.

Apparently I shouldn't have named schools in that post because that's not the main point. The main point is they didn't find a solution and it didn't seem publicly like they thought a solution was necessary.

Hence feeling like the ship being allowed to sink or the Captain was asleep at the wheel.

Maybe there was a little too much self congratulating after they were somehow able to get UT and OU to stick around the last time.

I think most of this was all inevitable, but if the Big 12 was truly blindsided, I absolutely agree the leadership failed miserably.

This is what it feels like to be a fan of a stepping stone program except in this case it's a stepping stone conference. Iowa State found out that they couldn't even keep The Mayor from moving on to bigger, better jobs. Now Kansas fans are finding out what many fan bases have already encountered as they watched coaches or players move on to better programs, that feeling that their conference wasn't quite good enough to keep their most successful programs from wanting to move to bigger, better conferences.

This was inevitable. It has always been that way. It's a bummer but hopefully Kansas is able to put itself in a good enough position to allow it to continue to be in a top tier conference. Sucks that we have the worst P5 football program possible but it is what it is.

OU and UT are the reason there was a Big 12; obviously someone was not listening at the league office. There is no reason the Big 12 couldn't be poaching teams itself. That UT would tear up its Longhorn Network tells you something. You had to feel that UT was all-in as long as that pay day was secure. The Big 12 was run by amateurs and it is a joke. To salvage the conference, you would need a lot more business and endorsement savvy than the group there now.

I know it's the nature of the media beast, but I really wish that the news/rumors about KU (and ISU) trying to set-up a call or two with some people at the B1G wouldn't have broke...a million different articles out there citing Vernon's tweet and it feels like it's a hindrance...like the B1G would have rather kept things undercover as much as possible.

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:51 pm hopefully Kansas is able to put itself in a good enough position to allow it to continue to be in a top tier conference.

If this plays out like it looks like it will, there will only be 1 top tier conference and it'll be the SEC.

2nd tier will be Big10 and ACC.

3rd tier PAC and whatever else survives.

InfiniteJ wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:53 pm I know it's the nature of the media beast, but I really wish that the news/rumors about KU (and ISU) trying to set-up a call or two with some people at the B1G wouldn't have broke...a million different articles out there citing Vernon's tweet and it feels like it's a hindrance...like the B1G would have rather kept things undercover as much as possible.

Now you're just being superstitious.

twocoach wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:22 pm

InfiniteJ wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:53 pm I know it's the nature of the media beast, but I really wish that the news/rumors about KU (and ISU) trying to set-up a call or two with some people at the B1G wouldn't have broke...a million different articles out there citing Vernon's tweet and it feels like it's a hindrance...like the B1G would have rather kept things undercover as much as possible.

Now you're just being superstitious.

I'm sure that's part of it.

One has to think that our new AD's connections through time at Northwestern might pay huge dividends for us. I'm surprised no one is mentioning this fact. If he can get us into the Big 10, his hiring was a success.