Kansas Crimson

DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:43 am Socialists must be convinced that the work to which they are devoting themselves is a serious, formidable and sublime work; it is only on this condition that they will be able to bear the innumerable sacrifices imposed on them by a propaganda, which can produce neither honours, profits nor even immediate intellectual satisfaction. Even if the only result of the idea of the general strike was to make the socialist conception more heroic, it should on that account alone be looked upon as having an incalculable value.

attribution??

Tom Nichols on Trump's Lack of Manliness

But since his first day as a presidential candidate, I have been baffled by one mystery in particular: Why do working-class white men—the most reliable component of Donald Trump’s base—support someone who is, by their own standards, the least masculine man ever to hold the modern presidency? The question is not whether Trump fails to meet some archaic or idealized version of masculinity. The president’s inability to measure up to Marcus Aurelius or Omar Bradley is not the issue. Rather, the question is why so many of Trump’s working-class white male voters refuse to hold Trump to their own standards of masculinity—why they support a man who behaves more like a little boy.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... nt/612031/

You should put quotes around words that you pull directly from other sources.

Seahawk provided a cite and italicized the quote.

That’s your complaint that your manly President is a pussy?

Tweeted this on Saturday.......

The professionally managed so-called “protesters” at the White House had little to do with the memory of George Floyd. They were just there to cause trouble. The
@SecretService
handled them easily. Tonight, I understand, is MAGA NIGHT AT THE WHITE HOUSE???
Great job last night at the White House by the U.S.
@SecretService
. They were not only totally professional, but very cool. I was inside, watched every move, and couldn’t have felt more safe. They let the “protesters” scream & rant as much as they wanted, but whenever someone....
...got too frisky or out of line, they would quickly come down on them, hard - didn’t know what hit them. The front line was replaced with fresh agents, like magic. Big crowd, professionally organized, but nobody came close to breaching the fence. If they had they would....
...have been greeted with the most vicious dogs, and most ominous weapons, I have ever seen. That’s when people would have been really badly hurt, at least. Many Secret Service agents just waiting for action. “We put the young ones on the front line, sir, they love it, and....
....good practice.” As you saw last night, they were very cool & very professional. Never let it get out of hand. Thank you! On the bad side, the D.C. Mayor,
@MurielBowser
, who is always looking for money & help, wouldn’t let the D.C. Police get involved. “Not their job.” Nice!


Blow me!


"Watched every move and couldn't have felt more safe".

YEP, of course you felt safe AFTER they put you, your wife, and your son in a bunker. As they probably should have - but give us all a fucking break with your continuous bullshit bravado.


"MurielBowser who is always looking for money & help, wouldn’t let the D.C. Police get involved. “Not their job.” Nice!"

REALLY?
Bowser and District police Chief Peter Newsham said that in fact, the local police force joined with Secret Service and U.S. Park Police to form a unified command to deal with the demonstration in which participants toppled gates, wrested a riot shield from an officer and threw bricks, rocks, bottles and fireworks.
Newsham said he provided Secret Service officers with equipment they did not have, including riot helmets. The U.S. Secret Service issued a statement saying “The Metropolitan Police Department and the U.S. Park Police were on the scene.”
https://www.wvgazettemail.com/secret-se ... a6d3d.html

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:16 am

TDub wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 11:51 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 9:42 pm Hey white AR-15 owners. The police state is advancing on protesting US citizens. This is why you explained to us that you needed those guns.

I don't see one of you motherfuckers on my television tonight. Fucking liars.

Didnt you say you would hide in your basement if this happened in your neighborhood.

I have a TV down here and a beer fridge
Please proceed with guarding the streets against the police state takeover like I was told you had to prepare for.

Sad. Im sorry for you.

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:16 am

TDub wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 11:51 pm

twocoach wrote: ↑Sun May 31, 2020 9:42 pm Hey white AR-15 owners. The police state is advancing on protesting US citizens. This is why you explained to us that you needed those guns.

I don't see one of you motherfuckers on my television tonight. Fucking liars.

Didnt you say you would hide in your basement if this happened in your neighborhood.

I have a TV down here and a beer fridge
Please proceed with guarding the streets against the police state takeover like I was told you had to prepare for.

Since ya asked.

https://tuckbot.tv/#/watch/gu7o5f

twocoach wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:09 am I just hope something positive comes out of this somehow. So heartbreaking.

Not to worry. ANTIFA will make it all better.

Geezer wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:17 am

DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:43 am Socialists must be convinced that the work to which they are devoting themselves is a serious, formidable and sublime work; it is only on this condition that they will be able to bear the innumerable sacrifices imposed on them by a propaganda, which can produce neither honours, profits nor even immediate intellectual satisfaction. Even if the only result of the idea of the general strike was to make the socialist conception more heroic, it should on that account alone be looked upon as having an incalculable value.

attribution??

Georges Sorel

Leawood wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 7:07 am Seahawk provided a cite and italicized the quote.

That’s your complaint that your manly President is a pussy?

I think he meant me.

But, as usual, I was being coy.

Speaking of "basements" and "least masculine presidents", anyone know if he's come out of his bunker yet?

#theresalwaysatweet

DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Sat May 30, 2020 11:45 pm

jeepinjayhawk wrote: ↑Sat May 30, 2020 11:16 pm

DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Sat May 30, 2020 4:22 pm

OK.

Is it your contention, then, that the Police Department of the city of Minneapolis is in the habit of using excessive force against and killing black men? That this is endemic behavior among police in Minneapolis and that what happened to George Floyd is but the tip of the proverbial iceberg?

As a former Law Enforcement officer...yes.
It is a by product of improprieties being ignored...escalating each time.

It of course happens, and gets officially written off. At least, until hard evidence shows it to actually have occurred.

I have seen dozens of police officers throw handcuffed men down flights of stairs.
I have witnessed many dozens of arrests being made outside of Miranda or many other lawful practices.
I have seen, and testified against, sworn testimony that simply went against truth.

If you fall into the mind set that police are infallible....you are part of the problem......barely recognizable to the truth

Thanks. I appreciate your perspective, and was waiting for you to chime in.

But 2 things: First, I don't think ANYONE said police are infallible or that they don't make mistakes. In fact, I think EVERYONE has said the opposite, with the distinction being who is to blame and in what proportion.

Second, that doesn't really answer the question about whether violence against black men by the Minneapolis PD specifically is endemic.

The MPD was responsible for killing 8 people from 2013 to 2018. That averages out to 3.0 police-caused deaths per million residents per year. That's BELOW the national average of 3.4 and WELL below the rate for twocoach's beloved Omaha PD (@5.2). (It also happens to be well above the average for the police department whose officers I'm most familiar with, but that's probably not relevant).

4 of those killed were black (1 Latino, 1 white, and 2 not disclosed).

Additionally, statistics show that 90-95% of subjects killed by police were armed when killed. If we apply that to the MPD #s, we get 1 person in six years who was unarmed. In a perfect world, that's 1 too many, granted, but is it proof of anything?

Also, I realize that killings and "excessive force" are not necessarily the same thing, but it's not an unreasonable proxy, especially given the limits of online data.

Great response DC.

I cannot attest to the Minneapolis situation, as I really only see what is filtered and released.

I was speaking mostly of my experiences in Law Enforcement.

I agree, most police officers do indeed strive to do the best they can, and are fair and reasonable.

I have seen, with my own eyes, hundreds of incidents very similar to the events that led to the death of Mr Floyd. It usually follows this pattern:

An interaction between a person and a police officer that becomes heated. Many times, in this situation, there could be a cop that decides that they shouldn't have to and/or will not put up with any more of this shit. That officer will be the one that initiates a more aggressive approach, and escalates the situation rapidly and ineffectively. Any resistance to that escalation will be perceived as aggression.

That particular officer is almost always cut from the same mold. He is alpha aggressive, his command cannot be questioned. He is at a lower rank than he thinks he should be, and often carries that chip. His ranking is often held back because of his personnel file.

Please understand, this officer knows all of these things about himself, but he cannot change who he really is, and in a lot of cases, wouldn't change if he could. His superiors covet some of his personality and overly physical nature in a lot of cases. He is kind of a hockey enforcer for them.

The other officers, that we wish would do something, often don't. There are a lot of factors at play. This officer probably intimidates them. He has probably threatened to kick their ass as well at some time. Certainly, the whole "unified force" environment carries lot of weight in keeping police from speaking out, or taking a stand. Also, by and large, police are no different than other folks.....they will avoid highly escalated conflict. This is where Alpha Cop shines.

And yes, training. There simply is not enough training after hire to give these police the skills needed to adapt to an escalating situation. Many hours are spent on take down and restraint tactics...and not enough on de-escalation.

it's almost like law enforcement attracts bullyish personalities more than many other careers.

the big question, at least in my mind, is how these “tough guys” are allowed to persist once they’ve established a track record of unsavory conduct

is it because they are protected by unions?

is it because their superiors covet their “abilities” too much?

once an officer has more than a dozen complaints against them, it shouldn’t be all that difficult to remove them...SHOULDN’T

and, how is it that bad cops are still allowed to be bad cops? how/why are they hired on with other departments even if they’ve got a sketchy history?

jeepinjayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:09 am

DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Sat May 30, 2020 11:45 pm

jeepinjayhawk wrote: ↑Sat May 30, 2020 11:16 pm

As a former Law Enforcement officer...yes.
It is a by product of improprieties being ignored...escalating each time.

It of course happens, and gets officially written off. At least, until hard evidence shows it to actually have occurred.

I have seen dozens of police officers throw handcuffed men down flights of stairs.
I have witnessed many dozens of arrests being made outside of Miranda or many other lawful practices.
I have seen, and testified against, sworn testimony that simply went against truth.

If you fall into the mind set that police are infallible....you are part of the problem......barely recognizable to the truth

Thanks. I appreciate your perspective, and was waiting for you to chime in.

But 2 things: First, I don't think ANYONE said police are infallible or that they don't make mistakes. In fact, I think EVERYONE has said the opposite, with the distinction being who is to blame and in what proportion.

Second, that doesn't really answer the question about whether violence against black men by the Minneapolis PD specifically is endemic.

The MPD was responsible for killing 8 people from 2013 to 2018. That averages out to 3.0 police-caused deaths per million residents per year. That's BELOW the national average of 3.4 and WELL below the rate for twocoach's beloved Omaha PD (@5.2). (It also happens to be well above the average for the police department whose officers I'm most familiar with, but that's probably not relevant).

4 of those killed were black (1 Latino, 1 white, and 2 not disclosed).

Additionally, statistics show that 90-95% of subjects killed by police were armed when killed. If we apply that to the MPD #s, we get 1 person in six years who was unarmed. In a perfect world, that's 1 too many, granted, but is it proof of anything?

Also, I realize that killings and "excessive force" are not necessarily the same thing, but it's not an unreasonable proxy, especially given the limits of online data.

Great response DC.

I cannot attest to the Minneapolis situation, as I really only see what is filtered and released.

I was speaking mostly of my experiences in Law Enforcement.

I agree, most police officers do indeed strive to do the best they can, and are fair and reasonable.

I have seen, with my own eyes, hundreds of incidents very similar to the events that led to the death of Mr Floyd. It usually follows this pattern:

An interaction between a person and a police officer that becomes heated. Many times, in this situation, there could be a cop that decides that they shouldn't have to and/or will not put up with any more of this shit. That officer will be the one that initiates a more aggressive approach, and escalates the situation rapidly and ineffectively. Any resistance to that escalation will be perceived as aggression.

That particular officer is almost always cut from the same mold. He is alpha aggressive, his command cannot be questioned. He is at a lower rank than he thinks he should be, and often carries that chip. His ranking is often held back because of his personnel file.

Please understand, this officer knows all of these things about himself, but he cannot change who he really is, and in a lot of cases, wouldn't change if he could. His superiors covet some of his personality and overly physical nature in a lot of cases. He is kind of a hockey enforcer for them.

The other officers, that we wish would do something, often don't. There are a lot of factors at play. This officer probably intimidates them. He has probably threatened to kick their ass as well at some time. Certainly, the whole "unified force" environment carries lot of weight in keeping police from speaking out, or taking a stand. Also, by and large, police are no different than other folks.....they will avoid highly escalated conflict. This is where Alpha Cop shines.

And yes, training. There simply is not enough training after hire to give these police the skills needed to adapt to an escalating situation. Many hours are spent on take down and restraint tactics...and not enough on de-escalation.

I think this story, that I've been sort of following, epitomizes your point.

https://www.sanjoseinside.com/news/thou ... rotesters/

I don't know if this story has the same timeline I do. Basically, this hot head, GI-Joe wannabe with a Napoleanic complex who is a cop in San Jose wanted to be violent.

The first video I saw of him, was him, among 20+ other LEOs, he was getting pumped up like a video game character for the immenent confrontation, and then later started shooting protestors who were verbally saying things to other LEOs with rubber bullets and shouting obsenities and taunting protestors.

The thing about it that stood out, was, you had all but one cop standing focused, calm, maybe anxious...and then this one guy who wanted to start some shit. Like you said, no one tried to stop him. You have mostly good cops who want to do a good job and the one asshole makes everyone look bad.

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:23 am the big question, at least in my mind, is how these “tough guys” are allowed to persist once they’ve established a track record of unsavory conduct

is it because they are protected by unions?

is it because their superiors covet their “abilities” too much?

once an officer has more than a dozen complaints against them, it shouldn’t be all that difficult to remove them...SHOULDN’T

and, how is it that bad cops are still allowed to be bad cops? how/why are they hired on with other departments even if they’ve got a sketchy history?

It's not easy work. And the pay isn't great.

People talk a great deal about how teachers are underpaid, and there's some merit in that argument.

But teachers don't generally leave home every day knowing that it is, at least theoretically, possible that they won't come home that night.

And, police deal with the absolute dregs of society.

I don't think I could do it, and for sure I wouldn't for that low pay.

DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:32 am

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:23 am the big question, at least in my mind, is how these “tough guys” are allowed to persist once they’ve established a track record of unsavory conduct

is it because they are protected by unions?

is it because their superiors covet their “abilities” too much?

once an officer has more than a dozen complaints against them, it shouldn’t be all that difficult to remove them...SHOULDN’T

and, how is it that bad cops are still allowed to be bad cops? how/why are they hired on with other departments even if they’ve got a sketchy history?

It's not easy work. And the pay isn't great.

People talk a great deal about how teachers are underpaid, and there's some merit in that argument.

But teachers don't generally leave home every day knowing that it is, at least theoretically, possible that they won't come home that night.

It definitely points to the need for more psychological care for LEO's. Most of the ones I see don't show up until they are either placed on administrative leave or their spouse files for divorce. This is a high-stress, high-risk, high-need population that sadly chooses not to seek help until much of the damage has already been done.

cops have a tough tough job. and yeah, many of them should prob be paid better, and enjoy a better status because of their profession. I have a lot of respect for the job they do.

but I think we can have a lot of respect, and still hold them to a high standard.

Sure, cops might leave for work every day wondering if they won't come home. But, given the hyper-alpha mentality mentioned, could it be possible that many cops leave work every day wondering if they'll get to go all "make my day" on somebody?

It might go both ways.

DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:32 am

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:23 am the big question, at least in my mind, is how these “tough guys” are allowed to persist once they’ve established a track record of unsavory conduct

is it because they are protected by unions?

is it because their superiors covet their “abilities” too much?

once an officer has more than a dozen complaints against them, it shouldn’t be all that difficult to remove them...SHOULDN’T

and, how is it that bad cops are still allowed to be bad cops? how/why are they hired on with other departments even if they’ve got a sketchy history?

It's not easy work. And the pay isn't great.

People talk a great deal about how teachers are underpaid, and there's some merit in that argument.

But teachers don't generally leave home every day knowing that it is, at least theoretically, possible that they won't come home that night.

ok?

all i get from that response is some sort of twisted justification that their job is hard, and life-threatening (whether that was your intent or not)