Kansas Crimson

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:23 am the big question, at least in my mind, is how these “tough guys” are allowed to persist once they’ve established a track record of unsavory conduct

is it because they are protected by unions?

is it because their superiors covet their “abilities” too much?

once an officer has more than a dozen complaints against them, it shouldn’t be all that difficult to remove them...SHOULDN’T

and, how is it that bad cops are still allowed to be bad cops? how/why are they hired on with other departments even if they’ve got a sketchy history?

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:49 am

DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:32 am

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:23 am the big question, at least in my mind, is how these “tough guys” are allowed to persist once they’ve established a track record of unsavory conduct

is it because they are protected by unions?

is it because their superiors covet their “abilities” too much?

once an officer has more than a dozen complaints against them, it shouldn’t be all that difficult to remove them...SHOULDN’T

and, how is it that bad cops are still allowed to be bad cops? how/why are they hired on with other departments even if they’ve got a sketchy history?

It's not easy work. And the pay isn't great.

People talk a great deal about how teachers are underpaid, and there's some merit in that argument.

But teachers don't generally leave home every day knowing that it is, at least theoretically, possible that they won't come home that night.

ok?

all i get from that response is some sort of twisted justification that their job is hard, and life-threatening (whether that was your intent or not)

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:09 pm ok, so three votes for better officer pay

somehow, i don’t think that takes care of the problem of bad cops

there are plenty of good ones (dare i say most), that put up with the shitty pay and don’t resort to unsavory behavior

ousdahl wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:49 am cops have a tough tough job. and yeah, many of them should prob be paid better, and enjoy a better status because of their profession. I have a lot of respect for the job they do.

but I think we can have a lot of respect, and still hold them to a high standard.

Sure, cops might leave for work every day wondering if they won't come home. But, given the hyper-alpha mentality mentioned, could it be possible that many cops leave work every day wondering if they'll get to go all "make my day" on somebody?

It might go both ways.

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:51 am The low pay results in a situation where you select for bad and inexperienced cops.

If you're good at your job, you move on or get promoted. You become a detective, move to federal law enforcement, etc.

DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:11 pm

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:09 pm ok, so three votes for better officer pay

somehow, i don’t think that takes care of the problem of bad cops

there are plenty of good ones (dare i say most), that put up with the shitty pay and don’t resort to unsavory behavior

That's not what anyone said at all.

Just that it can be tough to attract and retain full department full of good cops.

jeepinjayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:18 pm

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:51 am The low pay results in a situation where you select for bad and inexperienced cops.

If you're good at your job, you move on or get promoted. You become a detective, move to federal law enforcement, etc.

I am glad you pointed this out.
There is usually a significant jump in aptitude for law enforcement at the Federal level versus local or in many cases state level.law enforcement.

It is much harder to qualify....much harder to pass the training...and many, many more requirements to achieve the status.

I don't mean this statement to be bragging, but having witnessed with my own eyes unprepared and in some cases mentally unqualified people staffing law enforcement, the gap can be very wide.

DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:11 pm

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:09 pm ok, so three votes for better officer pay

somehow, i don’t think that takes care of the problem of bad cops

there are plenty of good ones (dare i say most), that put up with the shitty pay and don’t resort to unsavory behavior

That's not what anyone said at all.

Just that it can be tough to attract and retain full department full of good cops.

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:20 pm

jeepinjayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:18 pm

PhDhawk wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:51 am The low pay results in a situation where you select for bad and inexperienced cops.

If you're good at your job, you move on or get promoted. You become a detective, move to federal law enforcement, etc.

I am glad you pointed this out.
There is usually a significant jump in aptitude for law enforcement at the Federal level versus local or in many cases state level.law enforcement.

It is much harder to qualify....much harder to pass the training...and many, many more requirements to achieve the status.

I don't mean this statement to be bragging, but having witnessed with my own eyes unprepared and in some cases mentally unqualified people staffing law enforcement, the gap can be very wide.

i would assume there also a commiserate increase in vetting, right?

is it easier or more difficult to fire a bad fed officer?

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:18 pm

DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:11 pm

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:09 pm ok, so three votes for better officer pay

somehow, i don’t think that takes care of the problem of bad cops

there are plenty of good ones (dare i say most), that put up with the shitty pay and don’t resort to unsavory behavior

That's not what anyone said at all.

Just that it can be tough to attract and retain full department full of good cops.

i wasn’t trying to insinuate that anyone suggested pay as the ONLY issue

i do, however, fail to see how pay helps to eliminate bad apples

if the powers that be (supervisors, unions and the like) have no desire/ability to remove bad apples, it doesn’t matter what the pay is

i’m sure this all comes off as just being argumentative...but that’s not my intent at all

jeepinjayhawk wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:21 pm

DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:11 pm

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:09 pm ok, so three votes for better officer pay

somehow, i don’t think that takes care of the problem of bad cops

there are plenty of good ones (dare i say most), that put up with the shitty pay and don’t resort to unsavory behavior

That's not what anyone said at all.

Just that it can be tough to attract and retain full department full of good cops.

I believe that police that truly want to serve and protect would appreciate more and better training almost as much as a rise in pay.

Also, union protection IS a big part of the problem. I am pro union, but my experiences with police unions has not been good.

Geezer wrote: ↑Thu May 28, 2020 4:20 pm You actually believe he needs training not to kill people in custody?

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:18 pm

DCHawk1 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:11 pm

TraditionKU wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:09 pm ok, so three votes for better officer pay

somehow, i don’t think that takes care of the problem of bad cops

there are plenty of good ones (dare i say most), that put up with the shitty pay and don’t resort to unsavory behavior

That's not what anyone said at all.

Just that it can be tough to attract and retain full department full of good cops.

i wasn’t trying to insinuate that anyone suggested pay as the ONLY issue

i do, however, fail to see how pay helps to eliminate bad apples

if the powers that be (supervisors, unions and the like) have no desire/ability to remove bad apples, it doesn’t matter what the pay is

i’m sure this all comes off as just being argumentative...but that’s not my intent at all