Kansas Crimson

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 12:12 pm To me there is a difference between average sports fan, which you are describing ( BWW Chad's ), and the average CBB fan.

The average CBB fan's interest does not just start in March.

(It is here I'd say that if you were to make all of this up from scratch today, you'd probably have college basketball go more January-May than November-March. I understand that that's never going to happen ("March Madness" and all), but football is such a world-destroyer (and baseball so on the decline in the zeitgeist) that there is simply more room for college basketball in a different window than the one it's in.)

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 12:17 pm

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 12:12 pm To me there is a difference between average sports fan, which you are describing ( BWW Chad's ), and the average CBB fan.

The average CBB fan's interest does not just start in March.

(It is here I'd say that if you were to make all of this up from scratch today, you'd probably have college basketball go more January-May than November-March. I understand that that's never going to happen ("March Madness" and all), but football is such a world-destroyer (and baseball so on the decline in the zeitgeist) that there is simply more room for college basketball in a different window than the one it's in.)

And it is here where I'd say the most important thing in CBB shouldn't be about maximizing revenue.

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 12:20 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 12:17 pm

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 12:12 pm To me there is a difference between average sports fan, which you are describing ( BWW Chad's ), and the average CBB fan.

The average CBB fan's interest does not just start in March.

(It is here I'd say that if you were to make all of this up from scratch today, you'd probably have college basketball go more January-May than November-March. I understand that that's never going to happen ("March Madness" and all), but football is such a world-destroyer (and baseball so on the decline in the zeitgeist) that there is simply more room for college basketball in a different window than the one it's in.)

And it is here where I'd say the most important thing in CBB shouldn't be about maximizing revenue.

I didn't say anything about money. I think fan interest would be higher if the sport was less directly competitive with football (and, for that matter, the holidays).

I guess general fan interest would be a plus for me but on the other hand, I not so secretly hope KU gets left behind in the power 64 bid to then play in whatever very likely closer to amateur league/conference that would be left behind.

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 12:12 pm To me there is a difference between average sports fan, which you are describing ( BWW Chad's ), and the average CBB fan.

The average CBB fan's interest does not just start in March.

Where else is that line drawn, then?

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 12:20 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 12:17 pm

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 12:12 pm To me there is a difference between average sports fan, which you are describing ( BWW Chad's ), and the average CBB fan.

The average CBB fan's interest does not just start in March.

(It is here I'd say that if you were to make all of this up from scratch today, you'd probably have college basketball go more January-May than November-March. I understand that that's never going to happen ("March Madness" and all), but football is such a world-destroyer (and baseball so on the decline in the zeitgeist) that there is simply more room for college basketball in a different window than the one it's in.)

And it is here where I'd say the most important thing in CBB shouldn't be about maximizing revenue.

You could even say the most important thing in anything shouldn’t be about maximizing revenue.

BiggDick wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 12:58 pm

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 12:12 pm To me there is a difference between average sports fan, which you are describing ( BWW Chad's ), and the average CBB fan.

The average CBB fan's interest does not just start in March.

Where else is that line drawn, then?

wut

What are the other differences between the average sports fan, and the average CBB fan?

The average CBB fan absolutely has a favorite CBB team and watches them multiple times during the regular season. They can name multiple players ( 2+ ) on the roster. They can name multiple other players in their conference. They know the big matchups. They dislike the rival school. They can likely name the team that beat them in the NCAA tournament the previous year. They'll probably catch some if not all of their teams conference tournament. They'll watch all of their teams March Madness games and several others.

The average sports fan may not have a favorite CBB team at all and/or if they have one there is a greater chance they didn't attend that school than the average CBB fan. They may watch a couple CBB games during the season - especially the ones that are hyped up on ESPN - i.e. Duke/UNC. Unless there is an NBA talent on their favorite team, they don't know them. In fact, there's a greater chance they know the top 2-3 possible NBA picks than 2-3 players on their 'favorite' team. They sure as hell know Cooper Flagg tho ( or, do after looking him up - that white kid that's going to Duke )! They'll watch the NCAA tournament and learn the big names throughout but get less interested if the teams with the NBA talent or the big blue blood schools are knocked out.

Right on, thanks.

I still can’t help but think that, with regard to NIL, both those demographics skew heavily toward, “who cares?”

Heck, in an entire paragraph describing the average CBB fan, even you failed to mention it.

The average CBB fan has a much much much greater chance at following a subreddit about CBB.
Go take a look at the % of those fans and their response to the question.

Ah, so a select few message bored warriors.

OK.

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 2:36 pm The average CBB fan has a much much much greater chance at following a subreddit about CBB.
Go take a look at the % of those fans and their response to the question.

There’s no doubt that the last few years have been dislocating for sure. I’m very glad Bill seems to want to see it through to the other side. And I hope, with all sincerity and zero edge of any kind intended, that that other side is a balance that fans who think like you can support enthusiastically.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 11:52 am

My suspicion is that - just like with the pros - fan interest in football is more team than player, and basketball is much muddier. And so, to me, it would follow that roster turnover pisses people off WAY more in basketball than it does in football. I would also guess that roster turnover is much more directly impactful on the quality of play in basketball than it is in football.

I think that's accurate.

pdub wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 2:56 pmOK.

ok!

and I think there's a parallel here between the message board warriors in the CBB subreddit (and KCrim), and the idea that displeased customers are more likely to go leave a (bad) review.

For all the "average" customers, like average fans, and the "who cares" sentiment they seem to display - one element of not caring is, not caring enough to go post on a subreddit about how much they don't care.

And I don't mean to suggest not caring is necessarily nihilistic, tho maybe it partially is. Rather, I think it's just a matter of just not being that big a deal in the bigger picture.

But, all that aside, and if we could maybe go for something constructive here: take it from me that no matter how passionately you feel about a particular cause, no amount of message board warrior-ing is gonna change a thing either way, so maybe at some point it's just not worth the energy...shrug