jfish26 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 06, 2024 7:15 pm
Can’t really disagree (with either of you).
I think the subject is super important to our society and culture (and obviously our politics), though. And I think there is a point in those useless tweets.
fwiw, i do tend to agree with the sentiment
And hey, look, a full employment program just for them!
Missouri Republican proposes $1,000 bounty program to turn in undocumented immigrants
An incoming Missouri Republican lawmaker introduced a bill this week that would offer $1,000 bounties to residents who turn in undocumented immigrants to the state highway patrol.
The bill, filed by Sen.-elect David Gregory, a St. Louis-area Republican, would require the Missouri Department of Public Safety to create phone and email hotlines as well as an online portal where Missourians would be able to report alleged undocumented immigrants.
[…]
In addition to the payouts, Gregory’s bill would require the Department of Public Safety to create a “Missouri Illegal Alien Certified Bounty Hunter Program.” The program would certify people to become bounty hunters to find and detain undocumented immigrants.
jfish26 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 06, 2024 7:15 pm
Can’t really disagree (with either of you).
I think the subject is super important to our society and culture (and obviously our politics), though. And I think there is a point in those useless tweets.
fwiw, i do tend to agree with the sentiment
And hey, look, a full employment program just for them!
Missouri Republican proposes $1,000 bounty program to turn in undocumented immigrants
An incoming Missouri Republican lawmaker introduced a bill this week that would offer $1,000 bounties to residents who turn in undocumented immigrants to the state highway patrol.
The bill, filed by Sen.-elect David Gregory, a St. Louis-area Republican, would require the Missouri Department of Public Safety to create phone and email hotlines as well as an online portal where Missourians would be able to report alleged undocumented immigrants.
[…]
In addition to the payouts, Gregory’s bill would require the Department of Public Safety to create a “Missouri Illegal Alien Certified Bounty Hunter Program.” The program would certify people to become bounty hunters to find and detain undocumented immigrants.
Red necks rounding up “undocumented” immigrants while the economy falls apart.
An incoming Missouri Republican lawmaker introduced a bill this week that would offer $1,000 bounties to residents who turn in undocumented immigrants to the state highway patrol.
The bill, filed by Sen.-elect David Gregory, a St. Louis-area Republican, would require the Missouri Department of Public Safety to create phone and email hotlines as well as an online portal where Missourians would be able to report alleged undocumented immigrants.
[…]
In addition to the payouts, Gregory’s bill would require the Department of Public Safety to create a “Missouri Illegal Alien Certified Bounty Hunter Program.” The program would certify people to become bounty hunters to find and detain undocumented immigrants.
Red necks rounding up “undocumented” immigrants while the economy falls apart.
jfish26 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 06, 2024 7:15 pm
Can’t really disagree (with either of you).
I think the subject is super important to our society and culture (and obviously our politics), though. And I think there is a point in those useless tweets.
fwiw, i do tend to agree with the sentiment
And hey, look, a full employment program just for them!
Missouri Republican proposes $1,000 bounty program to turn in undocumented immigrants
An incoming Missouri Republican lawmaker introduced a bill this week that would offer $1,000 bounties to residents who turn in undocumented immigrants to the state highway patrol.
The bill, filed by Sen.-elect David Gregory, a St. Louis-area Republican, would require the Missouri Department of Public Safety to create phone and email hotlines as well as an online portal where Missourians would be able to report alleged undocumented immigrants.
[…]
In addition to the payouts, Gregory’s bill would require the Department of Public Safety to create a “Missouri Illegal Alien Certified Bounty Hunter Program.” The program would certify people to become bounty hunters to find and detain undocumented immigrants.
If this guy is actually serious he should offer a $1000 bounty on anyone who employs an undocumented worker. Rubes do rubbish things
Re: America Failed
Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2024 8:40 am
by Shirley
jfish26 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 06, 2024 5:05 pm
Guess this can go here.
Trump has made it acceptable to never take any personal responsibility for anything, including whatever grieves you. (Was Psych ahead of his time, or what?!)
Freed of that yoke, and able to congregate and reinforce each other's unsuccessful and dysfunctional reaction to life, online, Trump also gave them someone to hold responsible, and hate. (Convenient much?!) And, many fell for it, because that's easier than admitting you are failing, and need to change.
I think there's a lot of truth in what Scott Galloway has to say in the video below. (This is not a site I would ever frequent, it just came up in my feed.)
I don't think Trump or Republicans are in any way the solution, in fact, I think they created most of the problem, i.e., income inequality. But if what you want is chaos, disruption, (and someone else to hold responsible and hate rather than getting off your ass and changing what you can on your own), mission accomplished.
jfish26 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 06, 2024 5:05 pm
Guess this can go here.
Trump has made it acceptable to never take any personal responsibility for anything, including whatever grieves you. (Was Psych ahead of his time, or what?!)
Freed of that yoke, and able to congregate and reinforce each other's unsuccessful and dysfunctional reaction to life, online, Trump also gave them someone to hold responsible, and hate. (Convenient much?!) And, many fell for it, because that's easier than admitting you are failing, and need to change.
I think there's a lot of truth in what Scott Galloway has to say in the video below. (This is not a site I would ever frequent, it just came up in my feed.)
I don't think Trump or Republicans are in any way the solution, in fact, I think they created most of the problem, i.e., income inequality. But if what you want is chaos, disruption, (and someone else to hold responsible and hate rather than getting off your ass and changing what you can on your own), mission accomplished.
Good one! Now, turn that diagnostic brilliance on yourself. I won't hold my breath.
It really is a great strategy for the Dims: alienate the people whose votes you need in order to win elections. When you lose (because you alienated and disparaged them), just blame them, call them more names, and then demand that they smarten up and vote for the people who look down on them and wish they'd either die or have their votes discounted the next time around. 5-D chess, brother!
It's gonna be great!
Re: America Failed
Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2024 9:34 am
by BiggDick
Shirley wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2024 8:40 am
(This is not a site I would ever frequent, it just came up in my feed.)
not trying to be antagonistic, just pointing this out in a friendly way cuz I consider you a friend and would prefer to be friendly, but as a friend I feel like I should mention:
this kinda also sounds like the Lobster origin story...
Re: America Failed
Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2024 10:59 am
by TDub
Re: America Failed
Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2024 11:13 am
by BiggDick
yea.
It's something for anyone who consumes any information at all to be aware of.
But, bear in mind, at least I own it. I've been RaDiCaLiZeD!!!!
It was mostly instagram that did it for me. Or more generally, the gram and, well... *gestures at everything*
But, unlike the establishment liberal or alt-right sort of hot takes that the algorithms end up amplifying, the algorithms seem to comparatively throttle the "alt-left" views instead. The Qusdahls are constantly getting shadow banned, outright banned, put in timeout, reach and engagement limited, etc., often for innocuous or hypocritical or even laughable things.
Out of my own curiosity, and my own skepticism of some status quo, as well as encouragement from trusted friends, I had to consciously seek out these perspectives, rather than less-consciously being exposed to it through some "just came up in my feed" sort of route.
It's just more classic Cold War shit, really.
Also, heads up TDub, you're still acting pretty overly-attached-girlfriend about me.
Re: America Failed
Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2024 1:16 pm
by TDub
I dont even know what you're rambling about, I just liked the song man
Shirley wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2024 8:40 am
(This is not a site I would ever frequent, it just came up in my feed.)
not trying to be antagonistic, just pointing this out in a friendly way cuz I consider you a friend and would prefer to be friendly, but as a friend I feel like I should mention:
this kinda also sounds like the Lobster origin story...
A friend who, in the last week or so, has compared me not only to Republicans, but Lobster too.
Re: America Failed
Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2024 7:55 am
by KUTradition
weird definitions of friends
Re: America Failed
Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2024 10:52 am
by BiggDick
I, uh, did not mean that to be so personal or controversial or anything, nor did I expect such a defensive response.
But, again saying this as a friend - if one gets so worked up about a comment about their feed, then maybe it's worth taking a step back from that feed.
Chill on the YouTube, chill on the cable news, put down whatever it is that's getting you this upset.
As someone who's been there too, I'm afraid it's just not worth it.
I mean, that's what I did when I was compared to lobster, at least.
Re: America Failed
Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2024 11:46 am
by DeletedUser
Ousdahl giving Shirley advice?
That's funny.
Re: America Failed
Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2024 12:38 pm
by Overlander
DeletedUser wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2024 11:46 am
Ousdahl giving advice?
That's funny.
Re: America Failed
Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2024 2:25 pm
by jfish26
Absolute corrosion.
Re: America Failed
Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2024 9:45 pm
by Shirley
My favorite columnist is retiring from The NY Times. #sad
This is my final column for The New York Times, where I began publishing my opinions in January 2000. I’m retiring from The Times, not the world, so I’ll still be expressing my views in other places. But this does seem like a good occasion to reflect on what has changed over these past 25 years.
What strikes me, looking back, is how optimistic many people, both here and in much of the Western world, were back then and the extent to which that optimism has been replaced by anger and resentment. And I’m not just talking about members of the working class who feel betrayed by elites; some of the angriest, most resentful people in America right now — people who seem very likely to have a lot of influence with the incoming Trump administration — are billionaires who don’t feel sufficiently admired.
It’s hard to convey just how good most Americans were feeling in 1999 and early 2000. Polls showed a level of satisfaction with the direction of the country that looks surreal by today’s standards. My sense of what happened in the 2000 election was that many Americans took peace and prosperity for granted, so they voted for the guy who seemed as if he’d be more fun to hang out with.
In Europe, too, things seemed to be going well. In particular, the introduction of the euro in 1999 was widely hailed as a step toward closer political as well as economic integration — toward a United States of Europe, if you like. Some of us ugly Americans had misgivings, but initially they weren’t widely shared.
Of course, it wasn’t all puppies and rainbows. There was, for example, already a fair bit of proto-QAnon-type conspiracy theorizing and even instances of domestic terrorism in America during the Clinton years. There were financial crises in Asia, which some of us saw as a potential harbinger of things to come; I published a 1999 book titled “The Return of Depression Economics,” arguing that similar things could happen here; I put out a revised edition a decade later, when they did.
Still, people were feeling pretty good about the future when I began writing for this paper.
Why did this optimism curdle? As I see it, we’ve had a collapse of trust in elites: The public no longer has faith that the people running things know what they’re doing, or that we can assume that they’re being honest.
It was not always thus. Back in 2002 and ’03, those of us who argued that the case for invading Iraq was fundamentally fraudulent received a lot of pushback from people refusing to believe that an American president would do such a thing. Who would say that now?
In a different way, the financial crisis of 2008 undermined any faith the public had that governments knew how to manage economies. The euro as a currency survived the European crisis that peaked in 2012, which sent unemployment in some countries to Great Depression levels, but trust in Eurocrats — and belief in a bright European future — didn’t.
It’s not just governments that have lost the public’s trust. It’s astonishing to look back and see how much more favorably banks were viewed before the financial crisis.
And it wasn’t that long ago that technology billionaires were widely admired across the political spectrum, some achieving folk-hero status. But now they and some of their products face disillusionment and worse; Australia has even banned social media use by children under 16.
Which brings me back to my point that some of the most resentful people in America right now seem to be angry billionaires.
We’ve seen this before. After the 2008 financial crisis, which was widely (and correctly) attributed in part to financial wheeling and dealing, you might have expected the erstwhile Masters of the Universe to show a bit of contrition, maybe even gratitude at having been bailed out. What we got instead was “Obama rage,” fury at the 44th president for even suggesting that Wall Street might have been partly to blame for the disaster.
These days there has been a lot of discussion of the hard right turn of some tech billionaires, from Elon Musk on down. I’d argue that we shouldn’t overthink it, and we especially shouldn’t try to say that this is somehow the fault of politically correct liberals. Basically it comes down to the pettiness of plutocrats who used to bask in public approval and are now discovering that all the money in the world can’t buy you love.
So is there a way out of the grim place we’re in? What I believe is that while resentment can put bad people in power, in the long run it can’t keep them there. At some point the public will realize that most politicians railing against elites actually are elites in every sense that matters and start to hold them accountable for their failure to deliver on their promises. And at that point the public may be willing to listen to people who don’t try to argue from authority, don’t make false promises, but do try to tell the truth as best they can.
We may never recover the kind of faith in our leaders — belief that people in power generally tell the truth and know what they’re doing — that we used to have. Nor should we. But if we stand up to the kakistocracy — rule by the worst — that’s emerging as we speak, we may eventually find our way back to a better world.