Kansas Crimson

KUTradition wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2024 10:29 am what’s ironic, at least to me, is that it sure seems like the U.S. and the int’l community as a whole absolutely have a moral imperative to protect sovereign nations and their civilians from invasion and occupation/annexation

KUTradition wrote: ↑Sat Jun 29, 2024 8:19 am

TDub wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2024 10:26 am apparently in real life he must have some redeeming qualities but boy, on here, he is a worthless twat full of misplaced self importance hitched up to a wagon full of idiots claiming a non existent moral high ground. It's unfortunate and has to be, at least in some part, an act to feed either his own self righteousness or to somehow impress his hairy arm pitted dating app flings.

At least three times now, Trump has interfered with those negotiations by vowing that Russian president Vladimir Putin will release Gershkovich for him and him alone. He said it in last night’s CNN debacle, where he also made a big deal out of the idea that Putin will do it as a favor, without an exchange of money.

He said something else last night in his slurry of words that jumped out. Somewhere in his discussion of Putin’s invasion of eastern Ukraine in February 2022, Trump said: “Putin saw that, he said, you know what, I think we’re going to go in and maybe take my—this was his dream. I talked to him about it, his dream.”

[...]

According to the Republican-dominated Senate Intelligence Committee, Manafort’s partner and Russian operative Kilimnick wrote that "[a]ll that is required to start the process is a very minor 'wink' (or slight push) from D[onald] T[rump] saying 'he wants peace in Ukraine and Donbass back in Ukraine' and a decision to be a 'special representative' and manage this process." Following that, Kilimnik suggested that Manafort ‘could start the process and within 10 days visit Russia ([Yanukovych] guarantees your reception at the very top level, cutting through all the bullsh*t and getting down to business), Ukraine, and key EU capitals.’ The email also suggested that once then–Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko understood this ‘message’ from the United States, the process ‘will go very fast and DT could have peace in Ukraine basically within a few months after inauguration’” (p. 99).

According to the Senate Intelligence Committee, the men continued to work on what they called the “Mariupol Plan” at least until 2018.

In last night’s debate, Trump insisted that Putin never would have invaded Ukraine on his watch (although Putin in fact continued his 2014 assault during Trump’s term, and Trump tried to withhold support for Ukraine).

[...]

Last night, Trump claimed that the Ukrainians are losing the war and described how sad it was that their country is being destroyed (without mentioning that it is Putin’s unprovoked war that is doing that damage). He also significantly exaggerated how much money the U.S. has contributed to Ukraine’s defense.

That misrepresentation lines up with Putin’s offer of Friday, June 14, 2024, in a “peace proposal” to Ukraine: Ukraine would give up Donetsk, Luhansk, Zaporizhzhia, and Kherson, including far more territory than Putin’s troops occupy, in exchange for a ceasefire. Putin said, “If Kyiv and the Western capitals refuse it, as before, then in the end, that’s their…political and moral responsibility for the continuation of bloodshed.” He also demanded an end to all sanctions and that Ukraine abandon its plan to join the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO). (Ukraine president Volodymyr Zelensky rejected the plan and noted that there is no reason to think Putin will stop his land grab once his forces regroup.)

So when Trump last night said about the 2022 invasion, “Putin saw that, he said, you know what, I think we’re going to go in and maybe take my—this was his dream. I talked to him about it, his dream,” it sounded as if he had been in on the Mariupol Plan. And when he talked about how the war needed to end, especially in light of Putin’s recent “peace” plan, it sounded as if perhaps he still is.

And he promised, yet again, that he and he alone could get Gershkovich released.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Sat Jun 29, 2024 4:52 pm

KUTradition wrote: ↑Sat Jun 29, 2024 7:41 am it’s sad

at this point, i’ve got zero desire to read any “source” he digs up (and i doubt i’m alone)

bro you just admitted so many of your views here depend on willful ignorance.

My sources are very often the same as yours, including in this very instance.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2024 6:47 am This line of inquiry is incredibly important (note that there is more text, particularly more historical support, than I've excerpted, because this bored isn't letting me drop in the whole thing), and the evidence that is available to us is overwhelming:

The "West's propaganda" that we should fear is coming from the right, and people blaming this war on anyone but Putin are both victims and vectors.

June 28, 2024

https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.c ... ne-28-2024

At least three times now, Trump has interfered with those negotiations by vowing that Russian president Vladimir Putin will release Gershkovich for him and him alone. He said it in last night’s CNN debacle, where he also made a big deal out of the idea that Putin will do it as a favor, without an exchange of money.

He said something else last night in his slurry of words that jumped out. Somewhere in his discussion of Putin’s invasion of eastern Ukraine in February 2022, Trump said: “Putin saw that, he said, you know what, I think we’re going to go in and maybe take my—this was his dream. I talked to him about it, his dream.”

[...]

According to the Republican-dominated Senate Intelligence Committee, Manafort’s partner and Russian operative Kilimnick wrote that "[a]ll that is required to start the process is a very minor 'wink' (or slight push) from D[onald] T[rump] saying 'he wants peace in Ukraine and Donbass back in Ukraine' and a decision to be a 'special representative' and manage this process." Following that, Kilimnik suggested that Manafort ‘could start the process and within 10 days visit Russia ([Yanukovych] guarantees your reception at the very top level, cutting through all the bullsh*t and getting down to business), Ukraine, and key EU capitals.’ The email also suggested that once then–Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko understood this ‘message’ from the United States, the process ‘will go very fast and DT could have peace in Ukraine basically within a few months after inauguration’” (p. 99).

According to the Senate Intelligence Committee, the men continued to work on what they called the “Mariupol Plan” at least until 2018.

In last night’s debate, Trump insisted that Putin never would have invaded Ukraine on his watch (although Putin in fact continued his 2014 assault during Trump’s term, and Trump tried to withhold support for Ukraine).

[...]

Last night, Trump claimed that the Ukrainians are losing the war and described how sad it was that their country is being destroyed (without mentioning that it is Putin’s unprovoked war that is doing that damage). He also significantly exaggerated how much money the U.S. has contributed to Ukraine’s defense.

That misrepresentation lines up with Putin’s offer of Friday, June 14, 2024, in a “peace proposal” to Ukraine: Ukraine would give up Donetsk, Luhansk, Zaporizhzhia, and Kherson, including far more territory than Putin’s troops occupy, in exchange for a ceasefire. Putin said, “If Kyiv and the Western capitals refuse it, as before, then in the end, that’s their…political and moral responsibility for the continuation of bloodshed.” He also demanded an end to all sanctions and that Ukraine abandon its plan to join the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO). (Ukraine president Volodymyr Zelensky rejected the plan and noted that there is no reason to think Putin will stop his land grab once his forces regroup.)

So when Trump last night said about the 2022 invasion, “Putin saw that, he said, you know what, I think we’re going to go in and maybe take my—this was his dream. I talked to him about it, his dream,” it sounded as if he had been in on the Mariupol Plan. And when he talked about how the war needed to end, especially in light of Putin’s recent “peace” plan, it sounded as if perhaps he still is.

And he promised, yet again, that he and he alone could get Gershkovich released.

KUTradition wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2024 3:32 pm in essence, this is what q has wanted all along…a new world order led by china and russia

maybe it’ll be better, right? FAFO

Leawood wrote: ↑Thu Mar 10, 2022 1:03 pm There is a description for posters like you: Attention Whore.

ousdahl wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2024 6:16 pm I mean, in the context of this thread…doing whatever I want would be to discuss things like adults here, without name calling or personal attacks or putting words in each other’s mouths - and doing so in real time, rather than acknowledging bigger picture issues only in hindsight, but making it taboo to do so in real time.

But, on that whole putting words in one another’s mouths…boy, where’d you guys come up with the last 3 posts?!

I don’t want Russia, nor China, to lead a new world order. Far from it! I admit I’m at least intrigued by anti-imperial ideology. But anti-imperial ideology doesn’t mean you wanna substitute one empire for another.

As for “living under an imperialist, authoritarian system of government,” well, what’s your feeling on where I’m going next with that one?