Kansas Crimson

ousdahl wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 10:17 am Bro you’re the one who views all this thru sone partisan lens.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 8:21 am

Shirley wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 8:20 pm One theory I heard Julia Ioffe, (What a fox!) advance for why Putin would allow Biden to accomplish this exchange rather than waiting and letting Trump pull it off, is that Putin got pissed off at Trump for repeatedly making it sound as if Putin would bend to Trump's will so readily. "Oh yeah, Donald?"

Sounds plausible, to me.

Based solely on the reporting to date, I suspect the answer is different - I think Putin knew that the US didn't have what Putin wanted, and that Trump would not be able to broker the deal with the other heads-of-state that were involved.

Sparko wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 10:32 am

jfish26 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 8:21 am

Shirley wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 8:20 pm One theory I heard Julia Ioffe, (What a fox!) advance for why Putin would allow Biden to accomplish this exchange rather than waiting and letting Trump pull it off, is that Putin got pissed off at Trump for repeatedly making it sound as if Putin would bend to Trump's will so readily. "Oh yeah, Donald?"

Sounds plausible, to me.

Based solely on the reporting to date, I suspect the answer is different - I think Putin knew that the US didn't have what Putin wanted, and that Trump would not be able to broker the deal with the other heads-of-state that were involved.

There is some truth there, but there is also an absolute crap show in Russia. This type of thing would only happen if he needed something else. The emergency is Russia itself.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 10:40 am

Sparko wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 10:32 am

jfish26 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 8:21 am

Based solely on the reporting to date, I suspect the answer is different - I think Putin knew that the US didn't have what Putin wanted, and that Trump would not be able to broker the deal with the other heads-of-state that were involved.

There is some truth there, but there is also an absolute crap show in Russia. This type of thing would only happen if he needed something else. The emergency is Russia itself.

The fact that talks were advanced enough that the last moving pieces fell into place a couple weeks ago (before Biden dropped out) tells me that it's only coincidental that this is happening at a time when the election odds appear to be changing.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 10:31 am

ousdahl wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 10:17 am Bro you’re the one who views all this thru sone partisan lens.

This of course is nonsense - and right down the MAGA false equivalency messaging fairway to stamp a partisan label on being pro-democracy, pro-individual-rights and pro-science. As if it's normal course to be on the "other" side of those issues - it's fucking not, the Rs have gone singularly insane.

Shirley wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 11:28 am

jfish26 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 10:31 am

ousdahl wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 10:17 am Bro you’re the one who views all this thru sone partisan lens.

This of course is nonsense - and right down the MAGA false equivalency messaging fairway to stamp a partisan label on being pro-democracy, pro-individual-rights and pro-science. As if it's normal course to be on the "other" side of those issues - it's fucking not, the Rs have gone singularly insane.

The existentialist Jean-Paul Sartre thought that human beings live in anguish. Not because life is terrible. But rather because, we’re ‘condemned to be free’. We're ‘thrown’ into existence, become aware of ourselves, and have to make choices. Even deciding not to choose is a choice. According to Sartre, every choice reveals what we think a human being should be.

KUTradition wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 10:43 am

jfish26 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 10:40 am

Sparko wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 10:32 am

There is some truth there, but there is also an absolute crap show in Russia. This type of thing would only happen if he needed something else. The emergency is Russia itself.

The fact that talks were advanced enough that the last moving pieces fell into place a couple weeks ago (before Biden dropped out) tells me that it's only coincidental that this is happening at a time when the election odds appear to be changing.

yes

this didn’t get put together overnight

KUTradition wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 10:43 am

jfish26 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 10:40 am

Sparko wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 10:32 am

There is some truth there, but there is also an absolute crap show in Russia. This type of thing would only happen if he needed something else. The emergency is Russia itself.

The fact that talks were advanced enough that the last moving pieces fell into place a couple weeks ago (before Biden dropped out) tells me that it's only coincidental that this is happening at a time when the election odds appear to be changing.

yes

this didn’t get put together overnight

Shirley wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 11:52 am

KUTradition wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 10:43 am

jfish26 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 10:40 am

The fact that talks were advanced enough that the last moving pieces fell into place a couple weeks ago (before Biden dropped out) tells me that it's only coincidental that this is happening at a time when the election odds appear to be changing.

yes

this didn’t get put together overnight

I agree election odds are merely coincidental, and that Trump couldn't have brought all the parties together. One talking head characterized it as the difference between how the Biden Admin. treats their allies, and a "What have you done for me lately?" loan shark, who treats you like your payment is late.

But, it's surprising to me that Putin (apparently) wanted to repatriate the assassin being held in Germany so badly that he was willing to risk doing damage to Trump's election chances, to another 4-year term. Four years of a weakling like Trump at the head of the government of his arch nemesis. How could he pass that up? And especially since the SCOTUS has opened the fascism spigots so widely.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 11:58 am

Shirley wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 11:52 am

KUTradition wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 10:43 am
yes

this didn’t get put together overnight

I agree election odds are merely coincidental, and that Trump couldn't have brought all the parties together. One talking head characterized it as the difference between how the Biden Admin. treats their allies, and a "What have you done for me lately?" loan shark, who treats you like your payment is late.

But, it's surprising to me that Putin (apparently) wanted to repatriate the assassin being held in Germany so badly that he was willing to risk doing damage to Trump's election chances, to another 4-year term. Four years of a weakling like Trump at the head of the government of his arch nemesis. How could he pass that up? And especially since the SCOTUS has opened the fascism spigots so widely.

I mean, no one really has a very long leash for optimism anymore, but it’s at least possible that Putin has determined that Russia is too weak (domestically and otherwise) to continue in Ukraine, and is looking to burnish his negotiating credibility.

jfish26 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 10:15 am

ousdahl wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 10:11 am

jfish26 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 9:37 am

The comprehensive, categorical debasement of so many intelligent people is breathtaking when you zoom out. Think about some of the Trumpers you know, and imagine their reaction if you'd told them in 2014 what they'd be supporting ten years later.

Mind boggling, indeed.

But I’m concerned the phenomenon may be hardly limited to Trumpers.

Next stop, Bothsidesville!

jfish26 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 11:58 am

Shirley wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 11:52 am

KUTradition wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 10:43 am
yes

this didn’t get put together overnight

I agree election odds are merely coincidental, and that Trump couldn't have brought all the parties together. One talking head characterized it as the difference between how the Biden Admin. treats their allies, and a "What have you done for me lately?" loan shark, who treats you like your payment is late.

But, it's surprising to me that Putin (apparently) wanted to repatriate the assassin being held in Germany so badly that he was willing to risk doing damage to Trump's election chances, to another 4-year term. Four years of a weakling like Trump at the head of the government of his arch nemesis. How could he pass that up? And especially since the SCOTUS has opened the fascism spigots so widely.

I mean, no one really has a very long leash for optimism anymore, but it’s at least possible that Putin has determined that Russia is too weak (domestically and otherwise) to continue in Ukraine, and is looking to burnish his negotiating credibility.

Sparko wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 9:17 pm

jfish26 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 11:58 am

Shirley wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 11:52 am

I agree election odds are merely coincidental, and that Trump couldn't have brought all the parties together. One talking head characterized it as the difference between how the Biden Admin. treats their allies, and a "What have you done for me lately?" loan shark, who treats you like your payment is late.

But, it's surprising to me that Putin (apparently) wanted to repatriate the assassin being held in Germany so badly that he was willing to risk doing damage to Trump's election chances, to another 4-year term. Four years of a weakling like Trump at the head of the government of his arch nemesis. How could he pass that up? And especially since the SCOTUS has opened the fascism spigots so widely.

I mean, no one really has a very long leash for optimism anymore, but it’s at least possible that Putin has determined that Russia is too weak (domestically and otherwise) to continue in Ukraine, and is looking to burnish his negotiating credibility.

That remains my take. He controlled events up to the end and could have said nyet.

MICHHAWK wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 10:10 am pres biden is lame duck. there is nothing lamer than a lame duck president.